Anyways.. better capacitor than fatigue for null folks; logistics.
Bigger alliances concentrated into smaller areas better because more space for others..
So you will glass anyone small close by.. you do that anyway so not really a threat..
Saying you will have a mass exodus of players, doubtful and even then fc will have to run this a year before its ironed out - and you will be back by then.
A group that can muster 10-15 ships in the evening to roam around looking for small fights cannot “learn how to field 100 to bring a proper fleet”. A group that holds Sov in 150 systems and have 300 people in the staging system in the evening can learn how to deflect small gangs. Even 10 at once. And if they cannot manage this, reduce the number of Sov systems to 50 that are more close by, so less area to defend.
Tbh the whole concept of holding sov over a system with just 3-4 ratters in it on a regular basis is absurd. CCP/FC should completely redesign the sov mechanic in a way that requires a LOT more activity in a system you want to hold sov over.
The game has to mechanically make sure you actually live in that area you want to hold with significant force that can defend locally with ~20-30 combat ships on ping in any given constellation you want to hold. And only if some structure-threatening (aka timers shot) aggression comes from larger fleets towards your area the main alliance fleet is called for help. Every small roaming gang that assaults ESS, Skyhooks, Metenox etc.. pp has to be defended by the locals. And if yo can’t do that, live with the fact that parts of your profits get stolen and/or shrink your sov area until you can.
And the best solution to achieve this is limit the fast travel of big fleets while allowing smaller gangs to roam around unhindered. Big fleets can then still be present if a battle around timers is happening, to defend valuable infrastructure. But cannot interfere with the daily smallscale business any more. And each alliance has to find a sweetspot of how many systems they really can and want to hold under these conditions. Because once you find out how annoying it is to travel 30-50 jumps back and forth with a 150 man Battleship fleet just to protect some outskirt Astrahus thats just used by 3-4 ratters that gets reinforced every week, at some point you might come to the conclusion to simply drop that system or establish smaller border-staging systems instead of one main-staging system, so you can reach attacked spots a lot faster.
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Ah, so everyone else should adjust to suit your play style while you are already perfect and there is no change needed. At least you are honest about being full of it.
With the “power projection” nerfed, what does it matter if there are people in the staging system when they can’t get there. And even if they do get there on time all you elite pvpers are in cloaky nano ships running away. In other words it’s just wasting time.
Result will be doing very compact space, or moving majority to large scale mining and CRAB beacons where response fleets have a chance to help. At which point you and your elite pvpers will again cry about lack of free targets and CCP will nerf everyone else again, until we end up with massive player drop that will scare them enough to stop listening to your drivel for a few patches.
CCP diluted space to force everyone to spread out because you and your elite pvp buddies were crying how you could not get free kills in dense alliance space. Systems literally can’t support more people as CCP nerfed them into the ground.
How about we make it so that game mechanically allow us to nuke NPC stations where elite pvpers are hiding? No more capitals in NPC stations, ability to disable services for extended period of time by shooting the NPC station. After all, if everyone else should be able to defend their home, same should be the case for elite pvpers crying about force projection.
CCP has constantly changed sov to allow small gangs to disrupt operations of large alliances without any risk and yet, it is not enough. Elite pvpers keep crying because no matter what CCP does, we refuse to just feed you free kills.
In other words, you want entire game to be there as a service to you and your elite pvp buddies. Everyone else is just there to feed your psychopathy and kb stats. Why would anyone else want to play some other way than the way you and ccp devs approve of?
No wonder the player numbers take a dive every time CCP changes game to suit elite pvpers. If you get what you are asking here you will be crying in 2-3 weeks how there are only combat fleets in space and how that’s bad and booohohohoo. Same ■■■■ we saw with blackout where snuff was hailing it as a second coming of Jesus and then crying 3 weeks later because in the end all you want is free kills but are just dishonest enough not to admit it.
But CCP never does that. All they do is require players to grab lots of sov to have some space that is useful. This Power Projection nerf is just another example in this regard. They want people to be less mobile, but at the same time require the same people to spread out thin to do anything because the Sov Infrastructure requires so much maintenance materials. They simply don’t know what they are doing and throw dirt around like a toddler and ogle at stuff that sticks and falls down.
They did that some years back where logic was that alliances could build tall and not need a ton of space. But elite pvpers cried about lack of free kills (as alliances defended their space and systems could support enough people to fight of the “elite”). So CCP changed it to wide where each system supports just a few people. But even that was not enough free kills as alliances kept responding to attacks by the privileged few. So now the crying is about power projection, because the end goal is that 0.0 should just provide free ganks and never fight back. This is why CCP introduced the troll sov we have now, why they introduced skyhooks, why they introduced ESS and so on. All the time it’s "we have to balance everything for the small gang elite pvpers so that they can have fun and to hell with the rest of the game. They are there just to pay subs and provide targets. This is a harsh and unforgiving universe, after all! Well, at least for those that are not part of the “elite pvp” class. For the chosen few no amount of risk is too low.
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No? You can just accept the fact that part of your profits are stolen then. I mean, every small group has the same problem once a big group appears which they can’t fight right on the spot. Whenever I farm in a wormhole and someone rolls in with a gang, I either lose my ratting ship or my MTUs at least. And if they decide to stay and just farm my lucrative sites there is pretty much nothing I can do unless I chose to fight them. Why should sov null be an exception? Fight for your loot or lose some, it’s not the end of the world.
Blah blah blah, can you stop repeating that nonsense? Less than 5% of all my kills are in nano- or cloaky ships. And even those tho actually use cloaky/nano stuff are usually pretty easily scared off in beefy long-range projecton fits with a bit of EWAR mixed in. Because cloaky nano stuff usually lacks thick tanks to deal with consistent damage application.
Tbh, 4 Sentry-Eos, 2 Leshaks and 2 Guardians are able to repel 95% of all ESS robbing attempts easily. Thats enough RR that a nano-kiting gang cannot really hope to break and enough DPS and projection so they can’t tank it. And each Eos has free meds to fit some Damps, Weapon Disruptors or Paints. Navy Domis, Cruise Barghests etc… also work perfectly.
If a system has ~4 ratters in it like you claim, those are all able to at least field 2 ships. Easypeasy to block the overwhelming majority of all ESS robbing attemts with 8 ships in a well-chosen doctrine. Me and 3 of my corpmates could do pull that of half asleep. And if the agressors have 20 ships, well then you ask around if someone from the neighboring systems can help in time or just lose that one payout, again, not the end of the world.
I’d have absolutely no problem with the ability to “reinforce” NPC stations. I don’t live in one, most of the good PvP corps live and stage in own Citadels. All wormhole groups even in Citadels without any asset safety you nullers claim is “nessessary to survive” (haha, it isn’t). If some group permanently is a thorn in your side, why don’t run a campaign to attack them at their home?
The solution is to give the alliances system upgrades that allow developed systems and constellations to feed more people. But the alliances chose to grind all that stuff away with massmultiboxed farmfleets of single persons instead of sharing it among the memberbase. 
Self-made problem. Such Upgrades exist and tbh absolutely no one need to be able to make billions a day from grinding stuff. Alliances have other ways to make big money that they can spend on programs which makes ships and equipment incredibly cheap for the base members, if they wanted to do so. Sharing is caring.
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But then they reverted it or broke it or did something else to it because it NEVER really materialized the way you normally imagine “building tall”. Alliances still needed tons of space because small space could never provide all the means to maintain your infrastructure. CCP always screws this stuff up and always has these things backwards and tangled up.
If the intention, at least in part, is to benefit smaller groups then limiting the ACL to alliance level is doing exactly the opposite. As a smaller alliance it makes using ansiblex gates a lot harder for us and basically starts to edge us out of nullsec rather than making it more available to us.
I think we would have to seriously consider if, as a smaller alliance, we could continue to exist in nullsec
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over 20 years CCP declares that they want to achieve something and then execute changes that achieve exactly the opposite. And you wonder how the company hires wizards that do that?
ACL limitation? hmmm, try thinking again with what you got, if you cant, perhaps ask chatGPT ?
Its seems like the main issue is that some of you have 0 idea about how SOV works.
Our belowed developers made it so that you NEED to have USELESS space to have USEFUL space.
As long as you dont understand this. Or that fact that everything is tied to a TIMER. You will have delusions about what this change will bring or aimed at.
Defending SOV have nothing to do with Power Projection but overall Power of a coalition or alliance. JBs have nothing to do with meeting the TIMERs of either the Infrastructures or the SOV itself. This will no way help anyone grab space from larger organisations.
There is no space to grab. The empty system no one uses is empty because it is USELESS. That system have its resources rerouted to another system that can in this way holster an upgrade that is USEFUL. An un upgraded system is in fact in the current game state is USELESS.
If you undesrtand this. You will understand that this change serves one purpose. To generate content for cloaky camper and roaming fleets by limiting response time. Who wouldnt want to steal 300m from an ESS because there no way to respond in 5 minutes to 10-20 man filamenting in fits made to fight in an ESS versus that 5 player who can actually use 1 system out of the 5 nearby because power/manpower had to be routed away and half the systems are USELESS.
I will go over the Power Projection part again because there seems to be myths around how attacking or defending works.
When you attack. You build a FOB at the enemy border. And you attack fro mthe FOB. There are 0 JBs involved in an attack. Everyone will move ships with capitals/JFs.
When you defend. You defend TIMERS. TIMERS that you can make to with either normal gates or Titan bridges or anything but a JB.
Understanding this. We can see that the only thing they nerf with this is response time to thiefes in ESS since all mining is already centralised under capital umbrella anyways. And day to day travel but that wont be affected as its not a large number of ships moving at once.
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Why do you all care so much about nano gangs and whatnot then if you want to talk about sov? I don’t see people who disagree with you talking about sov at all. Mostly just ESS raiding, or catching ratters, not contesting sov.
Yea read the post of what this argument is about?
New players holding sov and whatnot?
If you still cant understand that this is not aimed wat what they say it is. But nano gangs then i dont know what else to say to you…
It’s about force projection, the ability for a group to travel from one side of the map to another. Or from their capital to the edges of their empire.
READ 2 posts above. This has nothing to do with force projection. BRO… WAKE UP… read
The thread is about Force projection, that meme is about force projection as well.
I dont know if you trolling or not.
They can name it whatever they want. If the intended effect are not what they present. But about something else. Then the original post is not about FP. If you understand how SOV works you understand this si not about Force Projection at all.
They aren’t changing how sov works though. They are changing ansiplexes.
That’s very rich coming from WHs where making isk is such a pain. Imagine, losing an entire MTU if someone managed to find a way into your WH. Now compare that with ESS where you can get to taking gates, cyno, filaments, and WHs. It is advertised on the map for all to see. Obviously that is a completely same situation as you losing an MTU in a WH.
We keep hearing how 0.0 is so profitable and easy yet all of you elite pvpers live somewhere else. How come if it’s so easy here? Might that you are full of it?
Yea if they are there. Problem is that systems support 3-4 ratters at best. Then you have to be lucky not to get caught, then switch ships, coordinate with others, and hopefully get into the ESS in under 5 minutes. ESS was designed for robbing and hiding, not for actually being defended. Now you will tell me that we should just have a 8 man standing fleet in every system in case ESS robbers show up.
Based on what? Far from everyone has multiple accounts. Problem is that CCP keeps balancing for small gang elite pvpers. Everything is balanced to benefit them. From ESS mechanics to the fact that you can drop your ESS payout into any structure and asset safety it to low sec in perfect safety. All your proposals are on the level of insanely much higher time and effort investment by the people living in that sov than for the elite pvpers showing up.
None of you crying about 0.0 actually live there yet you are constantly telling us how it is super easy and profitable. Why not live here if it is so easy? Let me guess, you want a real challenge of living in WHs where you print isk in nearly perfect safety.
All of you are hiding majority of your assets in NPC stations. Yes, you have some stuff in citadels but compared to 0.0 people who actually do live and have nearly all their assets in citadels it’s nothing. This is easily seen every time a WH citadel goes down. There is barely anything in it. Compare that with 0.0 things going down and the level of asset safety that gets triggered. Then add much safer environment compared with normal space where there is no such thing as locking down the system.
Can’t take out someone who hides in NPC stations so there is nothing to do about elite pvpers hiding there except to step on them every time they show up in our space.
In the end, the question is why do you cry so much about 0.0 if you don’t live there? Why are you bothered if we can move large fleets and fight each other? When was the last time anyone in 0.0 attacked WHs in any organised way? We don’t give a ■■■■ about you so why do you care so much about 0.0?
You didn’t have to write an entire paragraph to show that you have no idea how sov and sov upgrades work. You need resources which are not exactly plentiful which leaves a lot of systems more or less useless.
What multiboxed farms? What are you on? The only remotely multibox friendly activity is mining (as has been since day one). I guess you can also do SB ratting but that is probably not a good use of your time. Problem is that CCP nerfed systems to the ground last time elite pvpers cried about no free targets. Now that we are spread out you cry again because you are not getting those free kills that you were hoping for. 0.0 crew still shoots back instead of obediently feeding you free kills. Obviously no respect for your epic pvp skills, thus time to cry to CCP for the n:th time. After all if you can’t accomplish anything in game maybe crying out if it will work.
Given the fact that WH anomalies are so very limited that you roughly have TEN a whole WEEK and you usually need a pretty expensive Marauder or Capital to fly them, yes, a gang rolling into me while I am farming is imho way more dangerous and easily more costly than some ratter losing the ESS part of his money IF he choses not to fight for it. Maybe you forget that I don’t just “lose an MTU” but also all the BlueLoot inside, which can be hundreds of millions depending on which class you are farming.
And in addtion the invaders can easily decide to take whatever Gas sites there are as long as they have the upper hand and I can only watch them extracting even more hundreds of millions from “my home” if I cannot fight them off.
What do you mean “if they are there”? It is your goddamn obligation to a) have all defens doctrine ships needed for defending your stuff ready to undock in your hangars at all times and b) a local standing fleet up where everyone joins who is online at the time, including voicecomms for quick communication. If you are too lazy to set all this up properly of course you lose to 10 people that are moving as gang and having all this up and running.
Yeah sure, the myth from the poor 1-account solo ratter in nullsec. Dream on. You are the one trying to split hairs over total exceptions. People who are totally unable to muster any fighting force and also aren’t able to group up with others maybe shouldn’t farm alone in the barely defended outskirts and move closer into the alliances immediate protection range.
That part should be removed, obviously, I am a 100% on your side here. Who gets loot in 0.0 and he doesn’t live there better has a plan to extract it manually.
Because it’s ruled by Big Blocks with egomaniac leaders, full of incompetent pilots that aren’t able to solve the smallest problems on their own and always rely on the blob to get anything done. Exactly this is the reason why we need changes like this. The power of the large alliances has to be forcefully shrunk to a heartland area they can own, control and develop. But everything beyond that needs to be defendable or claimable only to people willing to actually live and fight there with a somewhat high local presence that is able to deflect roaming gangs on their own.
Well, this is neither true for me nor for any of the guys I have flown in the last decade. All our stuff is on WH citadels and if anything there are some spare ships for filament gangs in Jita. The overwhelming majority of our wealth is in the ISK- or PLEX-wallet tho. And thats an option that is also totally open to any nullseccer. If you lose anything, it’s in the end the result of your choice where to store what.
First because you use this mobility not to “fight each other” but to establis active area-denial and big renting empires. You use the mobility to simply claim 10 times more space you can really fill with a presence that could defend itself against the occasional roamer, instead you just deny huge areas of space to others by just threatening to steamroll anyone trying to settle there and neither following your rules or paying you tribute.
You do that because you can, because the current game mechanics allow it and allow it very easily and very convenient. And exactly that has to change.
Oh I do know how they work and I think they are currently not designed how they should be designed.
On Dscan. Whenever we take a static Nullsec WH, it doesn’t take long to find systems with whole Ishtar- or Alligator-Fleets or Rorquals with a dozen Exhumers grinding endlessly. All protected by a big Cyno Umbrella. And that has to change.
Sorry mate, but in this whole topic it’s just nullseccers “crying” about their blob teleporters being nerfed. I just try to explain you why it is simply nessessary and obviously CCP/FC is thinking the same. If you can’t understand it or want to act like a stubborn child stomping on the ground yelling “But I WANT, I WANT , I WANT to have my teleporters back!!!”, your choice. Power projection will be nerfed and this is only the first step. It will be nerfed further and count on it, every workaround and glitch you will find will be adressed over time. Adapt or die.
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