Devblog: War Declaration Changes - The War Adjacent to Christmas


(Peter Yurgin) #41

This is the wrong step in trying to fix this system. The first step should be to make being able to see who is at war with you and their war targets and see if there are common corps that you can coordinate with easier. The way it is now it is not very easy to know you are war dec’d a week after if happens unless your corp is putting it in the MOTD as a reminder. It comes on a little notification saying it is coming and never mentions it again until its over. It doesn’t even come up that fighting has start or has started. Its up to you or your war targets to figure that out.
But being able to coordinate with other corps against say high-sec mercs that are all war-dec’d should have been the first start. There is already an easy way not to be war dec’d; stay in the NPC corp. I’d even be okay with having NPC alliances that your corp can be a part of as long as the tax rate was the similar and the corps in the NPC corps could tax a rate in conjunction or not at all on top of the alliance rate. Player owned corps get created mostly to get away from the NPC tax rate. Because of that they should be able to be war dec’d. They pay that NPC rate for the protection of not being war dec-able. That’s my viewpoint on this.
The interface in how you navigate the war dec tab should have been revamped should have been the first step. Maybe the idea of NPC alliances that have an alliance tax rate comparable to NPC corps would be another step. This doesn’t really solve the problem. You will find random low power structures in unoccupied corners of EVE now.

(Tipa Riot) #42

Just a normal corp, owning a structure, ruled by an alt char. Use access rights management to give access to your main corp’s members.

But if you have to ask such a question, you probably are not ready to own structures yet … :wink:

(Rivr Luzade) #43

People are fed up with band aids, though. Working on a proper solution right away would have been the much better choice than yet another band-aid.

(Daichi Yamato) #44

I’m not so sure. And if you do a survey, i doubt people will be honest.

The people that didn’t come back might just think they’ll be decced again if they did come back.

But if getting decced makes you quit, what will ganking do? Will they ever leave hi-sec? Because if they don’t, apparently 80% of them quit anyways.

So yeah. Can’t wait to see the effect or lack of this will have on retention.

And regards to giving players clear choice on how eligible they are, what was wrong with social corps?

(Chainsaw Plankton) #45

tbh I’d consider using the wardec system to kill freighters as a good thing, but honestly it’s probably not very consistent.

well now we should see a pretty good a/b test on the issue and we’ll find out if they stay or not.

(Arrendis) #46

Dude, the two people in here who’ve pointed out the ‘this removes consequences’ are about as far from that crowd as you’ll ever find. You are, in fact, knee-jerking on the motivations you’re assigning there.

Yes, obviously CCP needs to find ways to stop the predatory wardecs from driving people out of the game. But there’s a legitimate issue in the point that this allows people to do things to other players without consequence, and without counterplay.

If it’s a stopgap, that’s fine. If structure ownership and ‘there’s a whole class of people you can’t hit back at when they’re a dick to you’ is the cornerstone of the new wardec system, though… all you’re going to see is the predatory wardec groups will be those dicks. The people driving people to leave the game out of frustration will just frustrate people with this system.

There are valid concerns being raised. Listen to them.

(commander aze) #47

You read the post or just skim over the part that says more is coming?

(Querns) #48

Folks figure out pretty quickly that they should keep their freighters in an NPC corporation, today, to avoid just this.

(Brisc Rubal) #49

Please, tell me again how you don’t use war decs to kill shuttles and freighters.

When you don’t log in to play an MMO for a week, you start doing other things. Playing other games, trying other stuff. Soon, you forget to log in. Then you don’t forget, you just don’t bother. The best way to keep people playing EVE is to ensure that they keep playing EVE. The meta with war decs for groups who don’t want to PvP is to log off for the week. That’s not a good game mechanic, and it costs CCP money.

You can keep saying “knee-jerk” all you want, but if you’d been paying attention to this debate, you’d recognize that this solution has been suggested and advocated for as long as upwell structures have been in the game.

(Zerzzes Markarian) #50

I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. Your corp info shows exactly which wars are active, pending and finished. If you go on the info of the enemy, it also shows who they are at war with.

(Rivr Luzade) #51

I know that more is coming for months. I said the same thing back when CCP fantasized about this band-aid for the first time. It is not a good solution, it is not a good approach, it is not solving anything.

(commander aze) #52

And this is different how? Literally other than being able to call yourself a corp and keep your taxes this is equal to being in an npc corp …

(Rivr Luzade) #53

And this change does not help there at all. Instead of useless band-aids, which are in fact knee-jerks regardless of how long CCP tinkers with it, they should have worked on a comprehensive solution and not feed everyone off with hopes for next year.

Furthermore, people should also get educated more on how to deal with wars. You do not have to give up your socializing under a war at all, even if you leave your corp for a week.

A fallacy. That problem has been lingering for over a decade and no one cared. There was no “immediate” need for a band-aid. A couple more weeks/months don’t change a thing.
Instead, now people are going to lose their structures and will be singled out for their structures, while big bot groups and bot-aspirant groups can go after their business even more immune to interaction.

(Querns) #54

That’s the thing – the upcoming change, essentially, changes nothing. Players who have enough guile were already insulating themselves from wardecs. After the change, they can affect the same situation that they have today, and still be in a player-run corporation at the end of the day. This is a good thing.

(Brisc Rubal) #55

In a perfect world, I would agree. But it was clear that something needed to be done immediately while a larger fix was developed and implemented. This was the most common theme in all the proposals for fixing war decs, so it makes sense it gets used as the band aid.

(Brisc Rubal) #56

I read and listen to everything, Arrendis, and nobody is suggesting that this be the end of the fix. I’ve said as much multiple times.

(commander aze) #57

This creates options to actually play the game in high sec, grow a corp to at least some size solves a number of things that will keep people playing the game. The longer they play the better, for all of us

(Peter Yurgin) #58

Say you are war dec’d by RIOT. They have like 100 wars. If you’d want to engage them it is hard to tell who would show up at war with them as an ally or an war target. You have to have someone comb through all their wars as sometimes they are the defender, aggressor, and an ally of other wars. And sometimes those war overlap with other high-sec merc groups that you can use to feed intel to help show up at times against them. But it is hard to tell quickly and you have to constantly go through the list because they end wars and start more wars and join more wars regularly.

(Rivr Luzade) #59

Another fallacy. People can already grow large corps without any problems in high sec. A number of big corps and alliances in high sec demonstrate that. What is needed is more education of people instead of pampering them.

(Querns) #60

This doesn’t work. People cannot be educated; it is simply not how humans work, at scale. They have to be shepherded.