Devblog: War, War Sometimes Changes

[R-0-B-0-C-O-P]

@Pheonix_Jr

ofc some one in one of the larger merc alliances would like a change to prevent small groups like Danger Gnomes from pooping on them like what happened to VMG, Why am I even surprised that you’d like it to be a numbers game instead of a skill based game

Hey, we all play to win. You do it your way and I will do it mine. I think your victory over VMG is a funny one. One that your “pooping” consisted of using someone to do something that you alone couldn’t do to a weak and inactive USTZ. Don’t get me wrong here, I’m not salty I just find humor in how you claim skill when it took all that it did just for you to lure Kickah out

I don’t necessarilly believe that the large groups will collectively snuff out the small groups. Unless there’s some kind of grudge or vendetta to be had, I would say that small groups won’t see too much trouble out of the likes of us… unless they dec a protection contract or the larger group is hired to kill a smaller group.

@Crash_n_Burn

Let’s face it, you have tools to do it, you can and like you zkillboard look with billions destroyed and no victims on your side.
If CCP take it from you, what you do with yourself, cry on forum or go to places where real pvp is?

Everyone has equal access to the “tools” that Wardec groups have.

I enjoy pvp in other areas of space. I really enjoy hunting and stalking players in wormholes. Just the other day I killed a Dominix… was fun

So if CCp decided to delete wardecs I would move on. What are you trying to say?

[Dracvlad]

Having slept on the reppers getting concorded, I have to say this is the only thing that I don’t like

I was unaware of that event involving PIE which @Arrendis linked, but that is exactly the type of event that I wanted to see happen in hisec wars and if we lose that then it is a negative thing for hisec, because as such the best way to get people to fight is a coalition of hisec players.

I personally do not have an issue with neutral RR because they went suspect and you can shoot them, I came across Spectrum shooting a Citadel in Kador Prime a while back and shot at their logi, after I did that they stopped doing neutral RR. I think the suspect flag is enough.

I know that certain people in the war dec discord really complained about neutral RR and it was an issue in terms of skirmishes in that certain war deckers would always have neutral RR to hand, so you had to plan for that so instead of being a fun fight which you fell into you had to plan to negate it.

I think you would be better served from walking back from this CONCORD idea and leave it as suspect but instead develop the approach so that allies in war do not go suspect. I was hoping that hisec coalitions would develop which would ally with each other, but under this approach it is not going to happen.

I am aware of the issue in terms of blanket war deckers but why should their complexity ruin it for others less able to fight. Remember you objective here is to get hisec players more keen to fight and this RR setup makes it harder. @CCP_Lebowski

There has to be some way to do it.

As for people saying people will put up a Keepstar, well is that really an issue if there are people around who could take it down, a Keepstar in hisec is missing key weapons, but with the RR thing only the nullsec groups could take one down, that is not a good thing.

@Daichi_Yamato I would think you are triggered by that, you might notice that Toxic Yaken liked my post, and that is because in the war dec discord I discussed this before hand and as he ran it and has all the past conversations he knows what I suggested and my initial idea was a CONCORD HQ in a declared Upwell structure which also gave locator and online intel but enabled more than five war decs per entity. In there I was pushing ideas at people which brought the ire of certain people, however the objective for me was to get defenders wanting to fight. So you can be snidey about it or you can start thinking about it.

[Crash_n_Burn]

@Pheonix_Jr

the only one crying about how unfair this game is, is you. You sound like a really angry carebear just because you have the ability to be wardecced

Funny like people like to excuse their actions right?
You know nothing about me, and I see you like cheap excuses to make youseff feel better

[Crash_n_Burn]

@R-0-B-0-C-O-P

Everyone has equal access to the “tools” that Wardec groups have.

Sure, I almost see all 1-2 member newb corps wardeccing Marmite or PIRAT … equal as ■■■■ ^^

Null sec is empty, lol sec too … gooo destroy or you guys affraid that we waiting on you at gates?

[gnshadowninja]

@Nevyn_Auscent

You are confusing declaring your own war with allying into a defenders war.
Or multiple corps who are already at war joining into an alliance with each other to be able to cross rep.

No confusion, I’m using examples to show that the future patches to wars caters for the larger entities (PIRAT, Marmite etc…) and that smaller entities will have a much larger and more expensive entry point into wars.

[Pheonix_Jr]

@R-0-B-0-C-O-P

@Pheonix_Jr

ofc some one in one of the larger merc alliances would like a change to prevent small groups like Danger Gnomes from pooping on them like what happened to VMG, Why am I even surprised that you’d like it to be a numbers game instead of a skill based game

. One that your “pooping” consisted of using someone to do something that you alone couldn’t do to a weak and inactive USTZ. Don’t get me wrong here, I’m not salty I just find humor in how you claim skill when it took all that it did just for you to lure Kickah out

A) Kickah wasn’t the only losses on vmg’s end, B) A lot of it was also content denial through neutral bait tactics

[R-0-B-0-C-O-P]

To an inactive USTZ

I know you live for recognition, and I get it. You did a great job doing what you did. Well played.

I suggest we focus our efforts on how CCP can better improve the situation in Eve Online and specifically Highsec. By the way, one reason why I like these changes is because I expected much worse. My mind was in dark places. So yes I’m happy. Are you?

[March_rabbit]

Changes look great. Finally something is being done to neutral logistics which was very popular to hate since Big Bang.

What i do not like in these changes is that they only remove and not add. “You must have”, “You cannot do this”, “You cannot do that”, “We will prevent this”, …
This makes the game smaller. It would be better to instead add something to the pot.

[gnshadowninja]

@Crash_n_Burn

Sure, I almost see all 1-2 member newb corps wardeccing Marmite or PIRAT … equal as ■■■■ ^^

We used to have a guy/gal who war decked us, it was him and his alt and he was extremely effective in killing the pilots in VMG/PIRAT.

You actually had to be on guard when he was online, surprising how little numbers you need to be effective.

Newbies maybe not but why would two new players join the game and war PIRAT? Like saying two newbies go to Delve space and drop a citadel.

[Crash_n_Burn]

High sec ganking alt is not even a main, so i belive that is natural route when you can’t afford plexing a main from your RL wallet…you need to grieff on lambs to make ISK …yeah im fine with that, but all rest skillpoints farm is not enough?

[Crash_n_Burn]

@gnshadowninja

We used to have a guy/gal who war decked us, it was him and his alt and he was extremely effective in killing the pilots in VMG/PIRAT.

You actually had to be on guard when he was online, surprising how little numbers you need to be effective.

Newbies maybe not but why would two new players join the game and war PIRAT? Like saying two newbies go to Delve space and drop a citadel.

I know one guy, just the same as you say … but wee all play this game, me like 10 years now and code. highsec wardeccing we can put in to RP fairy tailes to CCP because we all know how it is

[Crash_n_Burn]

@CCP_Lebowski just do the changes and don’t ask … be a game developer, this forum has nothing to do with positive feedback

[Wanda_Fayne]

I disagree. There have been some good ideas batted around so far. Keep this discussion going…

[Steve_Ronuken]

The Enemy of my Enemy is my enemies enemy, nothing more, nothing less.

Maxim 29

[Steve_Ronuken]

For people suggesting that if someone allies with someone else, they would join all the wars involved:

You’ve just allowed for allies in an offensive war. Or the return of neutral logi in offensive wars.

A wardecs B.
B wardecs C

D allies with B, because they’re in a defensive war with A.

However, A is just a holding corporation, owned by B, purely to allow for the alliance with D.

Either D just entered the war with C, or C cannot shoot D. But D can repair B.

Welcome to why this is a bit of a nightmare to fix.

[Vasama]

Well if you dec a WH corp, how do you place the structure X jumps from their structures?

Vasama

[Nevyn_Auscent]

Every idea has had titan sized loopholes in it. Not that I dont want to see some good ideas but really we are trying to fix something that cant be fixed I think. Too many loopholes.

Defenders who aren’t in an alliance making one to be able to cross rep is about as good as you can get I think.

[Dracvlad]

One refinement to the having to have the HQ in hisec and to deal with the Solitude issue of risk averse war deckers is to look at the defenders structure or structures and then increase the cost of the war dec the further away the HQ is from the defenders structure. Multiple structures would be averaged out. A bit of an abstract extrapolation but doable.

I am going to think through the ally and repping situation a bit more.

[Nevyn_Auscent]

So I can use potential war dec cost to locate your structures as a defender by using alt corps to triangulate distance…
Since otherwise I have to manually search all of highsec…

Do think of how ideas can be manipulated.

[Dracvlad]

You are smart and good point, but if smart people can use that then why not, but it gets rather complicated with multiple structures and still will be pretty general if done with this in mind. In any case they will have noted the areas where people are mainly operating in so they have a sort of head start anyway.

And you cannot not do things because some very smart people will exploit them.