The two small alliances could form one less small alliance. They could also band together with others and form a Forge-Bloc alliance. Wait, that’s effort? Yes, if you want to be successful, you have to put in effort. That’s true in Eve as well as in real life.
Again, if you don’t want that use public stuff. Use structures that are run by active groups, and try to communicate with them. That’s also too much effort? Well, then use stations.
There are solutions for every group and every situation. You just can’t have your own structure at zero risk with zero effort.
The two small alliances could form one less small alliance… but that would mean giving up their individual group identities, which is exactly what the ‘you have to have a structure to get dec’d’ is supposed to preserve: the ability for small groups to forge their own identities. Maybe some of them want to be in FW. Others don’t. Can’t do both in the same alliance, you know? [Again: actual example of this in EVE: PIE and LUMEN. Work together when there’s a situation in HS, and even in LS, but LUMEN isn’t a FW alliance. Maybe they don’t want to get shot by FacPo if they go into the wrong part of HS. And as for merging… PIE is literally the oldest alliance in New Eden, active or otherwise. Would you want to lose that claim if you had it?]
And no, they can’t form a ‘Forge-Bloc alliance’, because they can’t assist one another in a fight… unless you’re talking about, again, merging multiple alliances, which runs into exactly the same ‘group identity’ issues that were supposed to be protected.
I don’t disagree with needing to put in effort, but really coordinating multiple groups? That’s still effort.
It depends, if you end up with high risk and no real reward, that is bad. But just chanting risk vs reward at me like that means nothing at all.
I am pretty clear that I need to defend my stuff, I am pretty clear that I have to develop within a group to defend my stuff. I am pretty clear that if I cannot defend my stuff then I don’t do it. I am also pretty clear that I have to have the reward to take that risk and I am also very clear that high risk and low reward is not going to be something I will do. Got it?
so you cant show that 50man mining fleet… just to inform you a 50man mining fleet dont go in highsec standardbelts… in a 0.5 system a rightcklick belt have about one orca load full of ore only.
in a 10 man mining fleet its almost to many for one belt and you loose cycles for nothing and cycletime because the roids dont habe enough in.
a 50man mining fleet will have its owne moonbelts because they can time the belt to the exact second they need it. dont waisting time flying arrond with that large fleets finding others belts
a 50man mining fleet have a yield about 8,5m m³/h so they eat a weekly belt in about 1,5h with some positioning needet and a 4 weeks in 4h… so we talk in a realy extended 10h gamesession about 2,5 to 6 moonbelts per day they could “steal”
thats not a lot AND they had to haul a large amount of ore with some freighters… easy to bump maybee the dropcanns easy to steal?
as i say all I REALY SEE IN HIGHSEC are few AFK orcas sometimes 10 sure mining the moonbelts totaly AFK just do the math a 10x orca fleet need allmost 10h for a weekly belt…
the people you realy talk about are complaining about “stolen moonbelts” just want to mine totaly afk with minimised clients the whole day with no interaction to other players almost acting loke bots or ghosts. and mostly start yelling abpout “my property” 20-30min after a real mining fleet arrived in the belt
and not to mention there are a lot moonowners who never mine their moons but in the bio stays "drop me 10% of ore or isk for my fuelcosts…
also no interaction with other players not itention to mine the ore. no miners from the corp need it…
If everyone recalls, CONCORD no longer accepts bribes to allow you to shoot other groups willy-nilly. They now run a check on their database, and if there are no valid structure targets owned by the target corp/alliance, they refuse.
Highsec has had a 100% effective way for groups to opt-out of wars for over two months now. I thinks it’s time to put the ‘Think of the Children’ play book back on the shelf and focus on making wars more interesting and interactive for the majority of the players who want to fight in this game.
Players who are just starting out or just don’t want to fight have never had more space to play without a larger group leaning on them. Let’s focus the remaining energy CCP has to fix wars on making them more enjoyable and usable for those that want to fight.
They are paying for the structure with the service module. Only one structure of that type can be anchored near the moon’s mining beacon. Without that structure, there is no ore belt. This means that the money being paid to keep the service module running is what is producing the ore belt.
If, for example, I blow up their structure, and put my own down, with no service module… there can be no ore belt.
No, but you do have a claim on the ore. Or do you feel that when you pay for a service IRL, you don’t have a claim on the product of that service? If you were to pay for someone to go and dig up clams on the beach, do you have a claim on the clams? Or, you know, did you just give some guy money so he could have money and fresh clams?
Actually you don’t have the claim to the ore. At least not according to a statement CCP Fozzie made when the moon mining were originally introduced.
My initial post, way up there in the beginning of this thead, actually was a question if this stance has changed with the wardec rehaul. However, no one seemed to care to answer, so my guess is the old statement is still CCP’s official statement, which was asteroids cannot be owned by anyone.
You don’t have a claim to the ore in game mechanics. ie: there is no suspect flag, etc. That doesn’t mean you do not, rationally, have a claim to the product of your work and payouts. It just means that claim is currently one that is not enforced by game mechanics.
Could you link where it states these are claims? I was under the assumption moon drills were only set up to extract ore, nothing about claims. Is this factual or is this just your opinion?
Exactly, there is basically only one gameplay in high-sec that is not possible without your own structure: wars. Nobody is forced to put up a structure.
There is no claim at all. I’ve been asking CCP give a statement again on this issue, but as you can see, they have ignored my request, so we can only assume the old statement holds true.
Doesn’t matter if you put down a refinery. You don’t own anything until it’s safely inside your own cargohold.
Except that again, that is only game mechanics. Fozzie’s original statement is about the game mechanics, and not the normal way propriety attitudes in society function. He’d have no reason to comment on those. So, absent a clear statement of ‘you have no reason to be grr if someone waltzes in and takes crap you made without paying for it’, there’s no implied contravention of normal social expectations.
And even a statement of ‘anyone can take it’ is simply a statement of capability, not ‘and you shouldn’t be irritable if someone does’.