Go try it Nevyn instead of just sprouting off in the forum as usual with your rubbish.
Valid targets already don’t draw a suspect flag and there is nothing vague in the blogpost. It already works exactly as explained.
No one is rabbiting on about how to abuse it. That’s ■■■■■■■ retarded. It already works exactly as described and has for years.
Character A is at war with Character B. A can activate whatever they like against B, anywhere they like and not get a suspect flag.
‘The thing they are changing already works exactly like this’
Please show me where I’ve said the current wardecs don’t allow this, or where I can test the new wardec system already.
We know it’s changing, we know there is a hole in the current system (though have you tested it in an A vs B vs C situation, or just an A vs B situation?, i.e. details could be important here, this being EVE things can work differently based on the phase of the moon & time of day, yay spaghetti code!)
What we don’t know is what the new situation is going to be and if it is still going to allow this hole.
Nowhere have CCP said they are changing the current situation of enemy logi. Nowhere.
I hope they do, but they’ve only described changing the situation that currently results in the suspect flag.
Nothing more.
The right response to that is to go wardec the alt corp, which makes the logi a valid target anywhere at anytime, whether they’ve started repping or not. But that won’t happen. People will just whine about exploit instead because they still don’t get things exactly as they want it.
Yes… because wardeccing every possible alt corp 24 hours in advance is totally a thing that is sensible for every defender to do.
It doesn’t result in the defenders spending vastly more isk than the attackers… Oh wait it does.
To show in plain maths.
Attacker A declares war on B, C, & D. Costs them 300 Million.
Alt corps 1, 2, 3 exist with active wars. Costs them 0 if they make them mutual, or 300 if they declare them 1 way.
Net cost to attackers. 600 Million.
Now defender B has to declare war on C, D, 1, 2, 3. 500 Million. C & D also have to do the same. Because none of them know if the other 2 targets are actually target or false flag operations.
Net cost to Defenders. 1500 Million.
Alternative system
A declares war on B, has mutual wars with 1-6.
A spends 100 Million on war, B has to spend 600 Million on war simply in case of neutral logi.
So yeah… Expecting them to go wardec the alt corp really isn’t a reasonable thing.
Of course it isn’t. For carebears anything other than shallow, instant gratification, low risk gameplay is not reasonable.
I get it. We don’t want to maintain depth in gameplay. We don’t want to open up additional gameplay options by countering something that up until now hasn’t been used much, because it didn’t need to be. We just want CCP to nerf all the things we don’t like…because reasonable, a very subjective term.
You clearly lack literacy…
Because I clearly showed why it isn’t reasonable.
Yes, yes. I completely lack literacy because I don’t share the same view as you of what is “reasonable”.
Is it reasonable that the defenders can use the exact same approach to protect their own logi too, or should we take that option away from them also?
Which doesn’t stop them having to declare war on the attackers alt corps regardless. All it does is create an ever escalating spiral of alpha alt corps to then move logi into as needed. Which… is silly and unreasonable.
It’s also not reasonable to expect defenders to all know hidden wardec mechanics.
Sure. No one playing the game should have to know the game mechanics. We should all just play ignorantly. Level playing field and all that.
We should all be able to make ourselves wardeccable without understanding the implications of doing so.
So what changes are you proposing to market gameplay or industrial gameplay, or PVE gameplay to accomodate that approach?
HIDDEN GAME MECHANICS.
Of course people should know the standard game mechanics, but expecting people to know hidden mechanics is stupid, and yes, I also think they should be removed from places like the market.
But seriously, you are reaching the point of just trolling here. You haven’t provided any actual counter points, just thrown accusations.
What’s hidden about a game mechanic that already exists and has worked for years the same way?
It’s not hidden because people are ignorant to it. It plays out exactly as the mechanics are designed and implemented.
■■■■■■■■.
What counter point do you want? I don’t agree with you on what is reasonable and I know how the game mechanics work.
What more do you want. We aren’t all ignorant, even when we aren’t wardeccers. Some of us actually know ways to defend ourselves too, and we don’t all want depth in gameplay to be continuously removed.
I’m totally there on the neutral logi. It’s a suck of a mechanic and good riddance to it. But it won’t “fix” the situation, as there are other game mechanics that can be perfectly used and they expose characters to risk in other ways and that’s perfectly fine.
Logi will need to be wardeccable in the future and that is good. Currently, it can be immune from that.
So you think it’s reasonable for the defenders to have to pay vastly more isk than the attackers?
So you think it is reasonable to have to play a game of alts?
Because right now that is what you are saying, that you have to have a horde of alts in war ready corps, and then play shell games, or pay huge hordes of isk.
That’s a lie. They don’t.
Corp B gets wardecced…they start a mutual war with their own alt corp.
Just because you can imagine scenarios that cost them more, doesn’t mean they have to be as dumb as that.
And of course, in order for the attackers alt corp to be able to be involved in a war, they need a structure in space, which itself if attackable, same as the defenders if that’s what the defenders choose as a good option.
There is skin in the game for everyone. That’s what’s been called for and now that it is there, there’s still tears that it’s unfair on the defenders. It isn’t. Go declare war on the logi corp and kill their structure. They are just a logi corp, so that opens up options to force their main corp to make changes, all of which allow us as players to influence the gameplay of others, and that’s what is good about EVE. Lot’s of depth that we don’t need to continuously erode.
At which point it’s either neutral logi both sides, and no-one dies.
Or it’s a war of who has the most alt corps.
And if someone goes to attack the wardec alt corps, they ally in as a defender.
Really, you are just being so intellectually dishonest here you can talk to a wall now. Because you are just inventing examples that are so far from the norm of wardecs in order to try and make your points stick.
■■■■ off with your rubbish judgement. You probably can’t even give a succinct explanation of what intellectual dishonesty means. It certainly doesn’t mean - I have a different opinion to you.
We are all allowed our opinions and it won’t always work out as you describe, because the strong prey on the week (in game only). That’s where advantage comes in. Those that are prepared gain an advantage over those that aren’t. If people choose to be week, we don’t need to continuously erode depth in gameplay to accommodate for them. There is nothing dishonest about that view. It’s just as valid as yours. so go ■■■■ yourself.
I think the purpose of this forum is to discuss things. Scenarios that are improbable to some will be tested and found to be an exploitable scenario to others.
Now bother to scroll up and see where I found the exploitable part in expecting the defender to simply wardec all the alt corps so they can shoot/ecm/whatever the logi.
I think I found a way to make this work in HS
Corp A deccs corp B.
Corp C is neutral logi corp.
Corp A joins a Faction war side (lets say Galmil)
Corp C joins Galmil
Cannot corp C now provide remote assistance to corp A?
And anyone else in Galmil?
And if this gives Faction Warfare a big shot in the arm, is that not a good thing?
It is Empire space after all…
@CCP_Lebowski would this work? And if not, maybe it could… it would certainly drive more conflict (and be Lore friendly)
I’m reading it all, The alpha alt corp rabbit hole death spiral etc… All I am saying is lets keep talking. You two have escalated the tone, we should all be civil to one another even when we are on the internet and do not have the opportunity to converse face to face.
Eh, there comes a point where I stop being civil because the other person isn’t trying to actually discuss the matter. When they don’t answer any questions, ignore all reasoning, they cease being deserving of civility.