Directly sell skill injectors in the store!

(Marek Kanenald) #1

Yes I said it. Directly sell skill injectors in the New Eden store.

The main argument against doing so, namely CCP “creating SP out of thin air” is bollocks.

The reason this is the case is because skillpoint farms are used to do just that. It is just a roundabout way of doing so. This system only benefits the people managing these skillpoint farms. Of course you can say these SP farmers are just using the mechanics at their disposal to make a profit. But is the existence of thousands of accounts just for the creation of SP a desirable effect?

I suggest selling skill injectors directly in the new eden store for slightly less than the price that is needed for creating an injector through an SP farm.

Assuming 3.89 Skill injectors from an SP farm at minimal normal prices, the price of an extractor is about 240 PLEX (500/3.89 for sub + 112 for extractor)

Sell Injectors for ~220 PLEX. But keep selling extractors at the same price

It gets rid of SP farms, while still allowing “normal” accounts to sell their SP

(Scipio Artelius) #2

Do you have any data to show this is actually the case?

(Marek Kanenald) #3

The articles on how to set up your own SP farm are numerous, It is simply profitable to do so. I have also seen multiple people state that they run at least dozens of SP farms.

(Takari) #4

Sure but you have to wait 223 hours before you can use each PLEX purchased large injector. This keeps a reasonable time/SP/injector.

This is based on an average 2240/hour SP gain. Yes the farmers can do it faster but since they’re putting in the time before the injector is created, they get a bonus.

If you want the ease of buying from a non-player, you have to take the detrimental effect of waiting.

(Scipio Artelius) #5

The first sentence doesn’t actually answer what was asked.

If the second is true, can’t you link to where that is claimed?

You’re basing a whole idea on this being a problem that actually exists, but so far not demonstrated that it does.

It may well, but where’s the evidence to support what you have written?

(Rivr Luzade) #6

Yes, please do this. But only if CCP gets rid of the subscription. Otherwise, it is bollocks and just another money grab. Without subscription, lots of these ideas that sound outrageous at first make a lot of sense and are acceptable.

(Marek Kanenald) #7

I admit I have trouble finding first hand sources for numbers, I can only find second hand for the moment.

(Marek Kanenald) #8

What is the difference between buying from an SP farm and buying from CCP directly?

I feel like you are still pretending that SP isn’t created out of nothing using SP farms. The waiting becomes irrelevant when the number of SP farms and SP buyers increases.

(Scipio Artelius) #9

Congrats for looking. Most who post ideas here don’t, so respect for realising the value of being able to demonstrate what you think is the issue.

(Takari) #10

SP farms aren’t creating SP out of nothing, they’re creating SP out of subscribed characters (I don’t think alpha characters can use extractors). These subscribed characters are dedicated to mining SP, which is a thing they are allowed to do.

I’m actually not against CCP selling SP directly but I understand why they do it the way that they do. SP injecting operates at a loss once you get over 5mil SP. The more injectors that are used, the less SP there is in the game overall. SP farmers are getting rich but not nearly as much SP is ending up in characters as is created by the farm characters.

(Marek Kanenald) #11

It is just as “out of nothing” as paying directly for a skill injector. Both convert PLEX into freely distributable SP.

Like I already said the waiting becomes irrelevant.

As is the amount of SP lost on injection as the SP from the farm “lost” wouldn’t have existed anyway if it couldn’t be sold for profit.

(Takari) #12

It’s not a technical limitation, it’s a social one.

CCP can easily do this and I’m sure they eventually shall.

First they have to make sure the balance books add up for this kind of thing. They have to wait until they won’t lose more subscribers than they would make in selling injectors directly.

(Scipio Artelius) #13

Alphas can use extractors, just not to extract alpha skills (ie. former subscribed characters can extract omega only skills just fine as alphas).

Ghost training (continuing to train at full omega rate while alpha) was a thing a while back before CCP introduced a script to stop training queues and ruled ghost training an exploit.

Recently, it’s been fairly widely reported how ghost training remains possible.

So it’s definitely possible that people are continuing to train omega skills while alpha - but it still remains an exploit and they are liable to be banned if caught.

I personally think that the current exploit ruling is enough, unless there’s good evidence to show a significant problem still exists regardless.

(Vokan Narkar) #15

At first I wanted to immediately reply with big NO.

Then I read what you wrote and thought about it. It does make sense.

(Old Pervert) #16

Haven’t finished this thread yet, but I had to reply to this. This is utterly asinine.

  1. Whether the Plex is consumed by the farmers subscribing or via the NES, plex remains consumed either way.
  2. There is a massive surplus of injectors on the market. There is no functional difference between the supply on the NES and the existing skill farmers, nor would there be any difference between the demand of the two.
  3. Why would you need add a delay to the consumption of injectors because of this change? “They are putting in the time” is a moot argument when you have 50 skill farming accounts, each with 3 pilots (2 of which are MTC’d). Go ahead and multiply your 2240/hr by 150 brain bags and then your numbers get more realistic. Just the same, what is the logic?

(Corraidhin Farsaidh) #17

This is exactly why those of us opposed to daily skill injectors (and initailly SP trading in any form) felt that way. It was already a slippery slope, which is now being lubricated with excrement. It’s just a short hop from here to ‘Let me just buy the skill directly in a skill injector!’

(Old Pervert) #18

To be fair, you can just buy an injector for isk now, so there’s no functional difference.

If you want to use cash for current injectors, you buy plex and sell them on the market, then use the isk to buy injectors.

(Corraidhin Farsaidh) #19

Agreed, and I was one against it from the start. Of course I use extractors and sell injectors now as they are a part of the game now, and I just adapt and carry on. Doesn’t mean I have to like the mechanic and shouldn’t engage in some genuine ‘told-you-so’ when I get the chance :smiley:

(Old Pervert) #20

Hah, fair enough. Consider though that injectors brought me back to the game. 100% the reason.

Unsubbed a long long time ago, fell very far behind that curve. Looked at it a few years later, thought “meh… it would take me absolutely forever to get to a place where I can play the kind of endgame that I want to play, and even then I’ll get owned hard by players that have had the years of extra SP”.

Then CCP said “hey look, we just added injectors! You should come sub!”.

I said “hmm… hey that’s a great idea. /Sub” And I’ve been here ever since. I don’t use them anymore (at least, not on my main) because of the diminished returns, but they caught me up.

(Quelza) #21

This never makes sense to me. A ship benefits from only a subset of your skills at any one time. Once you’ve hit all Vs in skills relevant to piloting any particular ship you are on equal footing (at least, in regards to SP allocation) with players with vastly more SP.