Skill injector diminishing returns + old characters

Will try to keep this short.

Created my account back in 2009 and since then have taken a few long breaks the last being around 3yrs.
On returning to the game I feel like I need to catch up on lost time and injectors are a great way for me to do this.
My toon if I hadn’t taken breaks would be at least 100mil better off. However due to the diminishing returns the value is just not there at all especially after you hit 80mil sp.

I would like to see the age of the character taken into account when setting limits for SP returns on injectors not just how much SP you currently have.
This would also make me more likely to purchase plex as there would actually be value.

Edit - If there is a better section for this post can a moderator pls move it ty.

Yes I’d love to be able to whip out my wallet and get the SP for all the breaks I have taken, but…

No way -1.

The plex comment is a side note 2bh CCP is running a business after all and it is a potential source of income.
That being said I have never bought an injector with anything other than isk earned in game.
However I might be tempted if I was still getting 500k sp and felt there was actually some value for my money.
And I also still think that the sp gain should reduce at some point just that it should relate to character age not current sp.
Which is no doubt aimed at stopping new characters abusing them.
You and CCP also need to remember that breaks happen for many reasons.
I have a life outside EvE commitments and other interests unforseen events and circumstances.
I am not rich and certainly won’t pay for accounts I am unable to use just so skills can train.
My suggestion just allows older players to catch up which may even help attract others into returning and make CCP money which is good for the game as far as I see it.

That’s your problem, filthy casual. :wink:

the exact opposite of this in fact. the diminishing returns is intended to let lower sp players catch up with the higher sp ones, regardless of character age. if you are at the point where the diminishing returns make injectors completely non-viable, then congrats, you’ve caught up.

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I paid for my first 10m SP. No regrets. I’m patiently waiting for a real PLEX sale but until then I’ll buy large injectors with my hard earned ISK

Hell no.

Diminishing returns are there for a reason - so that no-lifers like many of us here have to pay an additional cost for injecting into expensive shinies (looking at you, 20 Rorqual alts) and nullseccers are discouraged from respeccing at a very low ISK cost every time a new flavour of the month hits the server.

Besides, you said you had been absent for more than 3 years. You sure as hell didn’t pay for this downtime, did you? If so, why do you think you’re entitled to freebies?

I’ve never bought SP. Only used free gifts from CCP.

It was nice especially when i was new: getting something trained every couple hours/days and seeing real progress in what i can use and what results i get :partying_face:

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No.

You choose either pay for the injectors or not. The value is irellevant, if you cannot afford to buy it, wait for it. The training is offline. Were you here around new year? Probably not, you missed out on an OPPORTUNITY for a booster that negated the diminuished returns.

Just like you could have let your sub continue to run and just log in to set the skills and plan for the future, you failed to do so too.

Both of your actions resulted in less money for CCP. And here you are telling them you are entitled to opportunities you missed by not paying those providing those opportunities.

Anyways, this is a good life lesson and that is what makes EVE great and EVE players successful in real life. Hang in there, train up, look around for the opportunities wether PVP, PVE or meta. Your post was clear and consize, you are going to be successfull.

Injectors are intended to help narrow the gap between new and old players while earning CCP a substantial income (extractors are purchased with PLEX). They have been very successful. The diminishing returns are deliberate - injectors reduce the total number of skillpoints in the game.

Where did I mention anything for free or being entitled ?
Either English is not your first language or you have poor reading and comprehension skills.
I just want the diminishing returns value raised to where i feel they are value for money and allow an old player like myself a way to get closer to where they should be in terms of sp.
This would still be paid for either by purchasing and selling plex or earning the isk in game.

Value is not irrelevant quite the opposite in fact however things can have a different value to different people. And people do not invest time and money into something they feel has no value.
Since 2009 my character has been inactive for about 3-4 yrs total for a few reasons like work commitments (I was in the armed forces) and my pc dying.
I am not willing to pay for a game when i am unable to play to me that is just daft but that is my personal feeling how others wish to spend their money is up to them.
And I have still racked up over 5k hrs of playtime in EvE I don’t play casually when i am able to play.
Sure in the inactive time i did not pay anything to ccp but when i do play I always pay for two reasons.
Firstly I prefer my isk in game to be used for my in game pleasure and secondly games need to make money it is a way of giving back despite being able to have just bought plex in game and never spend a dime of real cash.
I am not telling them I am entitled to anything I am asking them to raise the sp returns based on age of character which I would then pay for both in and out of game.
And as already stated I don’t actually have an issue with diminishing returns just that they are linked in the wrong way imo.
And they could easily add other measures to stop abuse of the system to be quite honest.
Thanks for your post.

this is entitlement and a preconception that is plainly wrong.

Also more SP does not make “better” player so there is no catch up to be done had you invested your SP properly.

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Asking or making a suggestion which is all i have done has nothing to do with entitlement.

Entitlement -

the fact of having a right to something.

“full entitlement to fees and maintenance should be offered”

synonyms: right, prerogative, claim, title, licence; More

  • the amount to which a person has a right.

“her annual leave entitlement”

synonyms: allowance, allocation, allotment, quota, ration, grant, limit

“your annual holiday entitlement”

  • the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.

"no wonder your kids have a sense of entitlement "

Nowhere have i said i am entitled to this feeling like i need to catch up to where i would be in terms of sp again has nothing to do with entitlement.
And i have stated that i do not feel the diminishing returns make for good value.
You do understand what a suggestion is right ?
It is also not a preconception I state I would have way more sp if i had been able to be active at all times which is a fact obviously and that injectors are a good way to get closer to that.
You are correct in saying sp does not make you a better player but again that is obvious.
It does however open doors and give you access to more ships, modules and the rest which can give you an advantage or a lvl playing field.
Also no idea where the invest my sp properly comes from where have i even talked about what skills i have invested time in.
You seem to like to take things out of context and state things about which you know nothing about.

The real funny thing here is that some dare to refuse to tell the whole skill trade sector pay to win.

“You cannot win this game and having skillpoints says nothing about what you are capable ingame” sure but simply HAVING THE OPPORTUNIY to keep shortcuts via real or ingame money is the mere definition of “pay to win”…

Hell 10 years ago the old community would have slapped you in the face for not calling it pay to win…

But i keep calm…things may have changed and people are more likely to buy stuff they don’t really need to take a shortcut that should not be existing…

But please give this “shortcut” the name it deserves and don’t sweettalk it and let your words circle around the truth…

You can call it whatever you want and CCP can either keep it as is or make changes its not up to me to decide I can only suggest.
Just makes me laugh how people think making a suggestion means i think i am entitled.
Would i like to see my suggestion taken up… of course i would i wouldn’t have suggested it otherwise but if they don’t oh well life goes on.

The way you’re wording it in the original message, you want diminishing returns on SP injections to be toned down or lifted for older characters, like yourself. Which means, provided that you are planning to inject a particular number of SP, that you will be able to inject the same number of SP for less money. That is a freebie.

I’m not in a position to tell CCP how to run their business, and I understand that discounts and bonuses are a valid tool for both attracting and retaining customers. However, in a competitive sandbox game, these have to be used very carefully and sparingly.

You, on the contrary - again, the way you’re wording it in your original message - want to change the landscape of the SP economy and discriminate against one category of players (with new characters) in favour of another (with old characters) just for your minute personal gain.

Example:
Whale A is an EVE player who started in 2009, played for some time and then moved on with his life. Whale B is a player who only joined recently.
One day, Whale A and Whale B thought it would be a good idea to play some EVE and fly a carrier. Provided that neither of them has yet trained the bulk of the skills required to optimally fly a carrier, they have to shell oit more or less the same amont of cash to inject them, as of today.
The way you’re proposing, Whale A is going to get a large discount on injecting into that carrier for no merit other than having joined the game earlier.

In this example, Whale A and Whale B have a roughly equal value for CCP - they both are willing to pay a certain amount of cash for skill injectors. However, giving Whale A a free advantage has an inherent risk of pissing off Whale B and putting him off his purchase.

Additionally, a whole bunch of old characters will gain additional value, even if they weren’t trained at all for their entire life - again, completely for free.

Oh i’m not against you…

My point is that things have changed the last 10 years and definitions have too.

On the other hand are people that deny any change just to keep the game status as it is for the last 10 years…

They fight a holy war against any change to more casual gameplay and don’t see that skill trading is exactly what they are fighting against…

But it’s not casual right?

It’s ccp that made this and ccp is always right.

The reconstruction of the game is already on its way,the poison is just given slowly…

But you can talk and talk…those people will not end their war until there is nothing left to fight for…than they will finally understand that the windmills keep turning regardless what they do…

And they will ragequit feeling “betrayed”…

it would have been the same even 5 years ago and still stays so, although players over time found themselves unable to play as much and thus some “shortcuts” become less antagonized compared to others (direct ship/module selling, for example, or lootboxes).

With the inception of skill trade EvE landscape changed greatly and not in the direction CCP wanted it to - for new player “to catch up” with old ones SP-wise. All it is led to (along with cap proliferation changes) is huge capital, supercapital, titan and rorqual multiboxing fleets in hands of selected few major alliances because they have resources to (ab)use the system to full extent.

Imo.

See this is what i mean by not reading what is written I state that I don’t have an issue with diminishing returns but I believe that it should be linked to character age not current sp total.
This is nothing more than a suggestion and i said linked to character age because I believe that it is actually fair. Older characters have more sp and i felt that in some way that should be preserved due to things i have read and people i have talked to.
It’s not like new characters can’t get a great jump start as is and I think it is a good thing they can when you think how long some people have been playing in comparison.
If you feel differently that is fine I have no issue with that at all we are all entitled to our opinions.
I never mentioned the level to which they should change it as i feel CCP would be in a better position to judge that than me.
But if it helps i was thinking of 100mil sp limit before the 150k drop off and around 80mil for the 300k drop off.
And no it is not a freebie if you pay for something it is by definition not free.