Only if you get extremely lucky on spawn RNG, and sorry but blowing up 1 out of 2-3 or 4 times is not going to cover the losses. Thats not even bringing up the suspect timer issues, just the PvE side alone.
Go ahead, run them on Sisi like I did. Just cause you get a right fit and finish a couple times doesn’t mean you can continue to do so to the point where it becomes economically viable.
Oh, what an honor!
Instead of asking the person that refuses to answer my questions, to answer them, you put questions to me instead.
Nice “tactic”…
Assuming these “psychological portraits” exist as you paint them:
Casual Runner: Can run as many pockets as they have filaments/time for. The linear model means the resulting filaments and loot has a better value on the market, making his 2-3 runs per day or week a better payoff than if multiple filaments dropped.
The Hardcore Farmer: Will identify the best isk/hr pocket, and buy stacks of those to run exclusively, and sell off the resulting filaments to others.
The Achiever: Can run the chain from L1-L5 with whatever ship/fit he wants, and feel satisfaction from having generated all ships/mutaplasmids/modules etc themself.
The Basic Nerd: Depends on what they find fun. If the pockets arent fun, it wont matter how many filaments drop, as he wont run them anyways.
The linear filament drop model is better, because it keeps the supply of filaments consistent/congruent, whereas multiple filament drops leads to mushrooming/tree model of supply of filaments.
In otherwords, the more filament drops there are, the less will be the value of both filaments and the loot from the pockets. More filaments leads to more pockets, leads to more loot and more filaments,
If the filaments are dropped at a rate of 1 guaranteed drop upon completion, CCP can add more value in the form of loot to the pockets. Whereas if they drop multiple filaments, then each one of those represents more loot and more filaments entering the market.
ie: 100 L1s will mushroom into a huge amount of filaments of various Ls, far exceeding the value/quantity of the initial 100 L1 stack.
@Dantelion_Shinoni
I answered your question, now you answer mine.
Why do you think it would be better for pockets to drop multiple filaments, rather than just 1 guaranteed drop to the next L pocket?
It’s very tempting, but just don’t bother or we won’t be discussing any real issue here until launch anymore.
While i don’t take sides here i would mention than:
TLDR: follow your own advise and ignore Salvos if you don’t like his posts. DO not spam the thread please.
And that is the root of the issue. Salvos has no educated guess, so all he is saying is just … complete nonsense.
Their opinion ON THE TOPIC.
Since Salvos has no idea how it works, he can’t give an opinion on the topic.
Again : only when they know what they are talking about. There is a lot of things to know before discussing about this specific topic, which people who know them don’t bother talking about .
eg. considering the loot of mutaplasmids, the loss of ships should be considered in the equation, but since Salvos can’t bother to do some sites on sisi to have an idea of the difficulty of them, his opinion is just completely irrelevant. His models are completely inappropriate.
I told him on the first post that I also agree with the loot being too high, but not on the reasons, because he didn’t know all the things. He felt aggressed because I considered he didn’t know everything on a topic after just having heard of it and went on his spamming-spree, unwilling to understand that nobody will answer his question BECAUSE HIS QUESTION IS NONSENSE.
She and another poster already admitted to spamming 20 false flag reports on my posts, each, accounting for 40 of the reports @ISD_Buldath found here, and after which he temp locked thread.
Ill link the posts/evidence when I get home.
The difficulty of the sites has no bearing on how many filaments they should drop. If they are unreasonably unduable, thats a CCP design failure. If they are unreasonably unduable, more filament drops wont help that, as they will still be unreasonably unduable.
The loot from pockets can be adjusted to make them worthwhile, without damaging the filament/loot market, as multiple filament drops invariably will.
Some people are having difficulty understanding that more than one filament drop will result in quadratically more pockets being generated/run, thus introducing far more filaments/loot to the market, thus reducing profits and risk/reward from running them, for everyone.
At worst, it means a player with a stack of L1 filaments, never needs to buy a filament ever again, as he will generate more filaments than he started with, just by running pockets.
Its so simple mathematics, that they must have an ulterior motive for refusing to acknowledge the above. Either its just to troll me/thread, and/or they want to self-generate more filaments than they started with, for some reason, despite the fact if will harm the filament/loot market heavily.
I dont believe they are genuinely so stupid, as to not realize the repercussions of multiple filament drops, as explained above. They just dont want to.
I noticed a trend on all the answers you gave for each of those psychological portraits.
You explained what they would do, NOT how it would benefit them.
The filament will have value only if there are people who are willing to run that level. The problem is that you are making the night of that person dependent on if other people deign sell that level and you can’t even see that. The guy isn’t looking for the value of the filament, he is in for an activity to do to take off his mind before having to take care of wife and kids, you are essentially telling him:
“Do that level of Trig-Space even if you don’t want to, if you don’t you will have to go to Jita and pray that someone has the level you want, but hey don’t worry Salvos determined that your hypothetical filament value would be worth the time wasted and losing your gaming night”
Again, you are only saying what they would do, not how your system benefits them in ways the multi-filaments system doesn’t.
Because, guess what, even in the multi-filament model, they would do the EXACT same thing.
What I see as advantages and disadvantages for the linear model is clear:
A clear loss for everyone else. The Hardcore Farmer does make a profit but it is at the expense of everyone else.
I will give you a point on this one.
For the Achiever, having a chain telling him that the final goal is Level 5 is good, it gives him direction.
However you are NOT taking into account the nature of the content. Abyssal pockets are NOT guarranteed success encounter.
Right now they are geared to chew and destroy more ships than they let win.
To put it simply, you are making the Achiever be dependent on running Data sites over and over again, or again go to Jita and pray that the rich Hardcore Farmers did not already buy all the filaments of a level he needs to continue.
The Basic Nerd finds owning a challenge (or player) fun. He also likes Mastery but not to the point of being ok with losing too much.
You are right that he won’t run Levels that do not interest him, that he doesn’t find fun. But remember, YOU are the one telling him:
“I, Salvos, have determined that you will have to run the next level even if you don’t find that level fun. Trust me, it’s for you own good”
To put it into simply you are pushing him into an unfun dichotomy:
Lose-Lose situation in both cases.
I do not see even as single way your model benefits him….
I think I can sum up your argument to this:
The suspicious part in me is thinking that you might have some interests in filaments being that scarce, but for the sake of the discussion I won’t put intentions on you that I know nothing about, just know that I am thinking that lol
But, to finish, your model goes to the detriment of nearly everyone.
You make them overly dependent on Jita, you lock them out of content thet want to do, you make Hardcore Farmers have ENORMOUS power over the availability of the feature, and all that for a part of the market that only the farmer wants to participate in.
Again, I only see losses for the game here. This WILL result in unhappier players and in less players for EVE.
I will gladly do so,
in another post lol.
But you can already reflect on the disadvantages on your model to guess what I will say about the multi-filament model.
EDIT:
I just noticed you posted your post literally a second after I posted mine.
A pretty clear indication you didn’t even bother reading and reflecting on what I said before proceeding to taunt me.
I will not respond to your question. I’m back to not caring about what you say and think. This post will be for everyone else who is participating in this thread.
Now we can go back to discussing something else, your model will never happen anyway lol.
Do so then.
Edit: I read your post just now after telling you to make due on your answer.
I have no interest in rebutting your post above. It was your rebuttal to my answer to your question and stands as your view. It is what it is, and I am not interested in arguing it, nor am I under any obligation to.
What I want, is that you answer my question in reciprocation for me answering yours.
Deliver your answer to my question, as I did for yours.
Quid pro quo.
I will.
There was no taunt.
I didnt ask for a rebuttal, which is what you submitted instead above.
I asked for an answer to my question, which you still have not delivered, though I delivered mine.
Well then get to it.
False flaggers below, evidenced in their own words as deliberately spamming false flags and trying to get others to do the same:
The only reason you can still write here is that the ISD either lacks the capacity to read through your continous spam or the will to enforce Forum rules.
Personally, I would really like for @CCP_Falcon to implement a possiblity to filter people out, because let’s just face it: no ISD will ever read through this entire sucker of a thread, unless they are alts of people who already write here. We can’t expect disruptive discussion behaviour to be solved with flags, but I’d really like for the people who want to speak about the topic in a respectful and mutually interested way, to still have a place for that without being forced into cycles of … whatever this even is.
edit: meh… closing the thread instead of stepping in while it was still saveable. why do we even have the ability to flag for spam if it only leads to accusations of “false flaggin”
This thread has run its course, and has devolved into nothing but people attempting to flag spam eachother and troll.
It’s gone beyond normal conversation and discussion of the expansion and into simple rulebreaking and trolling.
If you’d like to discuss things further, feel free to do so in the multitude of of official feedback threads that are in various places on the forums, or do so next week when the official feedback threads for the expansion are released.
Don’t re-open this thread.
Additionally, don’t take this type of behaviour to other threads on the forums, or you’ll find yourselves losing the ability to post.
Thanks.