I am wondering from level 1 to level 5, what are the recommended dps and eph respectively?
Specially, I am wondering if I can run level 2 or 3 security missions using my active armor tank Gnosis which has about 30,000 ehp and 430 dps (with 5 medium drones).
My capacitor on Gnosis is sustainable if I turn off medium armor Repairer alone but leave the 50MN MWD on forever which I can go fast for a long time. If I turn on armor Repairer I have repair rate of 38 hp/s.
The short answer is you should be OK.
The long answer is…it’s a long answer. The problem with EVE is that one-number metrics like DPS and EHP are only guidance. In the case of DPS, there is the difference between what the sim calculates and what is real. If your tracking sucks and you can’t hit anything, then that DPS is not being applied.
The other side of that coin is tanking. EHP is definitely a thing, but so is speed tanking (going fast enough that the enemies have trouble applying damage) and signature tanking (having a small enough sig that enemies have trouble applying damage). It’s basically two sides of the same coin.
To see this in action take the same weapon on your Gnosis and fire on a slow battleship and a fast frigate and note the difference in the applied damage. Note how that changes with range and if the ship is approaching vs. orbiting you.
How you deal with those variables will affect your fit and your piloting skills and approach, and are things that will come with experience and practice.
Thx again for helping me out! I really appreciate your detailed response! New players like me always tend to oversimplify the EVE by some simple metrics.
Depending on what you are using the ship for, IE tanking, drone boat, gunnery etc. will determine, as you mentioned in your OP, having the armor rep on, and leaving the mwd off. small frigates you are prone to flying with guns or kiting around ships…
BC’s and up, depending on specialty traits of the ships, can just sit in space while dealing all the damage. for instance, for me, kestrel, drake and raven, i don’t move. i don’t use prop mods too often, but did have AB’s on drake and kestrel
In L4’s If i have to travel 50km to a gate, i’ll be taking everything out while im traveling to the gate.
Where as, my Vexor Navy Issue, I had a AB on it and i flew circles around rats while my drones did all the work… But my VNI also only has 14,000 EHP. and 684 drone dps.
Raven over 40,000 ehp and almost 1,000 dps.
No worries, man- that’s what these forums are for. We’re here to help.
If you want a total brain melt, you can dive into the mechanics for things like sig and transversal (and the math, oh the math…). Here’s a great presentation that gets into the details:
Missiles, of course, are different.
Now, as you dig into that, don’t just think about your guns, but also think about what that means for how you tank your own ship. Those modules that give you lots of EHP but slow you down and increase your sig can look better on paper, but can be horrible in practice because the enemies can apply more damage to you. This is another place that a tool like PYFA can be insanely helpful because you can see all these interactions and see the difference very clearly between different versions of modules. And, as always, play style has a big impact- a kiter will need a different fit than a brawler, which will need a different fit than a sniper, etc.
Keep in mind that having a microwarpdrive activated blooms your ship’s signature 500%.
Thanks for this reminder. My understanding is if I use MWD, rats will hit me much easier. But my ship will be much faster by using MWD so I don’t know the tradeoff between signature radius and speed. My Gnosis can travel about 950m/s with MWD but 140m/s without the MWD. Without MWD, sig radius is 275m, with MWD sig radius is 1650m.
Do you recommend to leave MWD on forever during battle since I have the capacitor balance or just use MWD a few cycles and turn on my medium armor repairer?
It’s going to depend (sorry). The issue that you will have is that a bloom that big, you WILL take more damage, even with good transversal. But, you will be moving quickly out of range of most enemies (Guristas and Mercs being the likely exception as they can use some pretty long range weapons).
So, the trick is to have enough tank to be able to survive that burn out of range of rat swarms that get too close to you. For L3s, you’re generally going to be fine, but some L4’s can drop you into the middle of a world of hurt (like Worlds Collide).
So, again, this comes down to play style- if you are brawling and getting in close, an AB is a better choice. If you’re a kiter or sniper, MWDs are better to quickly burn to range then turn it off to reduce sig and save cap.
I really like the Gnosis, but one major hit against it is that it’s so danged slow. That definitely is something to deal with as you fight.
So, for a long-range fit, go with:
- Land at the warp-in
- Turn on the MWD and burn to range, tanking the damage as you go
- When at range, kill the MWD and fire up the AR if needed.
the smaller your sig radius, the smaller your ship “looks” to the enemy. at 1650, your gnosis looks like the size of a capital ship. where as at 270, your the size of the ship you are flying… There are skills and mods that can reduce, or increase sig size depending on drawback, or consequences of said mods/rigs.
How is your Gnosis set up?
Note - this is essentially the implied question in Geo Eclipse Oksaras’ first reply.
If we know how you’re doing damage (guns, missiles, drones) and you’re tanking (shield/armour; buffer/regen), if you prefer brawling or kiting, etc, it becomes possible to explain e.g. how to use an MWD.
I like (cheap) Gallante drone ships and kiting. I’ve done a lot of L2 Security missions in a T1/T1 Vexor with the best drone range and dps buffs I could afford (all non-bling T1 /lol), and long(ish) range (somewhere between 50-75 km for both drones and guns IIRC).
I use an MWD to handle range problems (rats converging fast from two directions etc) , but only have the cap to “burst” it for a couple of ticks at a time.
With that particular fit and ship this is very efficient. But if I was closer in with a rep tank I probably wouldn’t fit an MWD at all.
For highsec solo PvE EHP does not matter as much as your ability to actively repair the incoming damage. For level 4 missions Battleships can generally do good with about 300ehp/s tank as long as you dont aggro everything in the pocket and clear the tackle/webs 1st. Faster and smaller ships can get away with less with finer piloting and experience.
When you are up at Level 4, you are supposed to have a deeper understanding of what and how you are tanking and fitting. You learn about active, passive, shield, armour, damage types and distances and how to fill all those slots to establish a balanced system.
There are many ways to use the MWD. I prefer to activate for only one or few circles.
There is one DED5 Mission I lost several Myrmidons, and I wondered why the rats got down even tough tanked Myrms within 2-3 shots - that’s where I learned about why Battleships love active MWD, because their massive firepower needs a big signature radius. And some frigs with webs slowed me down, so my Myrm was very easy to be smashed.
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