Drifters, triglavian and mutaplasmid


(Umbre Fallenstar) #1

With the release of the new video from the Scope, we learned about mutaplasmid.

So what we do know about it?

  1. Biotech, part biology, part technology
  2. Highly Mutagen, but once it has been used, the mutation seem stable (long term stability yet to be proven)

So I went into a bit of thinking about this whole drifter-TC war going on.

My theory is a bit far fetched by is actually consistent with everything we know so far.

The drifters are jovian in origins, more exactly from the second empire, the time the “jove disease” appeared. This event started the colonization of Anoikis by the joves and the construction of the sleepers’ enclaves.

For yet unknown reasons the drifters emerged. Someone or something is using joves bodies retrieved in the enclaves and jove territory, modify them with heavy cybernetics and then use them to protect jovian possessions and brutally retaliate on anyone pillaging jove technology.

The drifters act like a bee-hive, with a “collective” mind, do not care about individual loss and use drifters bodies as “connectors” between the collective infomorph (which can be artificial) and the ship.

Then we learn that the drifter are diving into abyssal deadspace to fight a recently forgotten civilization: the triglavians collective.

With the discovery of the mutaplasmic, it clear, for me, that is the objectives for the drifters. Let me explain:

it could cure the jovian disease

The thing is that joves use cloning in place of “natural” reproduction since 2 millennia. But the use of the word “disease” is not completely exact because it’s not due to a virus, parasite or bacteria.
no, it’s due to the genetic manipulation they did to their DNA.

To cure this disease, you don’t need to find a “vaccin” or a medicine, you need a correct DNA.

By using the mutaplasmid on the heavily cybernetic bodies of the joves, this biotech mutagen has a small chance to produce a stable DNA.

One this stable DNA has been created, you can clone it indefinitely and re-inject jovian’s infomorphs inside it.

That could lead to the resurgence of the Jove Empire.

For me it make sense on why the drifter would send such armadas inside TC domains when they are pretty much “passive” with the known space and faction.

Of course it’s only an early theory and many possible new evidence could destroy it.

What is you opinion about it ?


(Avio Yaken) #2

So…We stop them, right?

I’m assuming that’s the plan we’re going forward with. If so I’m in full support of it.


(Umbre Fallenstar) #3

My goal is the Truth, so my post was here to propose a theory that is plausible, that’s why I want to discuss it, confront it, to see the problems of it, and find ways to solve them.

Not to discuss if it is a “good” or “bad” thing.

My personal opinion on the matter is that it’s impossible to predict the outcome.

on the plus side: if the drifter stop being “one entity” then it mean we can reason with them, and maybe come to a peace and tech exchange.

on the minus side, it also could lead to an actual active war between the joves and us, which is very unlikely to end with our victory.

But once again I’m no general or politician to advertise a politic in any way.


(Diana Kim) #4

In the past Jove helped us to win our independence from gallentean hegemony.

If they need help, I believe it is our duty to help them. And when they resurge their Empire, maybe they will help us again and save our cluster by burning down Gallente Federation. Aahh, but that’s just wishful thinking.

I really don’t know what happened to Jove after their gate network collapsed… And, what is exactly their disease?


(Umbre Fallenstar) #5

I’m going to pass on the political stuff, I’m not here for that, once again.
The Jove disease is due to their (abusive) genetic manipulation.
They messed up their DNA so much that it’s beyond repair.

The actual “disease” has multiple effects and a 100% fatality rate so far.

  • during Foetus development : because of the cloning process that replaced the “natural reproduction”, when the disease was discovered, it was too late and 50% of the foetus could not reach viable state.
  • during Life : at a point in the jovian life, the disease can manifest itself, the symptoms itself is pretty much the same that for a deep depression. But in the end the depression is so deep that you pretty much “stop living”. going from period of sleep longer and longer, to coma, then death.

Of course we only know little of how it work.

Here is some of my hypothesis on the Jovian Disease (JD) that I consider “safe” (in the sens that it has a high probability) :

  • the JD mess with hormone production.
  • it produce frail bodies (therefore why the drifters are so much enhanced with cybernetic)
  • it mess with the brain construction, favouring the apparition of depression, loss of interest, etc
  • to be short, it’s a multiple, small changes in organ production that lead to all the symptoms I listed.

(Diana Kim) #6

Thank you for the answer!

As for the “political stuff”, well, I don’t think it is very political. It is just a question of honor and debt. And, really, we are in great debt to Jove, and I think that helping them to reestablish their Empire will be just a very good move, just from a human point of view.

I don’t like myself being it debt to someone and always try to return favor. I don’t have any political motives for this. Just a deep sense of gratitude to Jove for helping us and my desire to repay for it.


(Lug Ohtar) #7

Flesh is neeDed,
Engineered empty shell to Protect,
Soul to be Binded,
So that anew he can Breath.


(Nico Boru) #8

The thick plottens. I like this theory. It would add volumes to the lore.


(Umbre Fallenstar) #9

(Ooc: i agree but the igs forum is still a “in character” ^^ speaking of “lore” is not very rp :stuck_out_tongue: )


(Loki Vaako) #10

I think the video showed us some useful insight into the tactics that the Triglavians deploy.

The war between the drifters and them also raises an interesting point in that so far - correct me if i’m wrong there has only be a record of one Triglavian ship being destroyed or damaged by the Drifters, despite the evidence of countless numbers of Drifter battleships being heavily damaged/destroyed.

I know that Concord Cruiser managed to destroy several smaller vessels at great cost to themselves.

Finding out the origins of the Triglavians could answer some of those questions. Some of the questions that i would like to ask are the following?

  • Why do they live in Abyssal Space?
  • Is it due to a seperation from the Jovians?
  • Or are they a completely separate race?
  • Can they survive outside Abyssal Space?
  • Have they made unofficial contact with any of the Empires? If so what is the nature of that contact.

Any ideas on these questions or am i asking things that have already been discussed?


(Aria Jenneth) #11

So far we don’t have a lot other than vague suppositions on most of that, my lord. Most of this is just speculation, but, as best I understand it:

  • In a sense, the likely answer to why they live where they do is probably, “They can.” Humans are a little like that-- we tend to move into places where it’s possible for us to survive. Our own civilization’s been setting up colonies even on toxic balls of molten rock for quite a while now, so if they have the technology and Abyssal deadspace has resources that make living there desirable, it’s likely people would move right in. Of course, “shelter” is, itself, a resource.

  • I don’t think we have any real clues yet on whether or how the Triglavians are related to the Jove, as the Sleepers seem to be. They might be a Jovian offshoot, or they might be true Ancients, like (I think) the Talocan-- true precursors to our modern peoples. Some of us might descend from the same roots … but they’ve been apart from us for so long. It’s hard to say.

  • Their ships seem to be able to survive outside these pockets. Actually considering that I guess we have only a limited time and space to explore their domain before our ships are destroyed, it might be more accurate to say that they seem to be able to survive the Abyss’s native conditions.

  • We have no way of knowing what contact they might have had with whom; it’s not like the empires have much reason to trust us with secrets. As far as we know, their main contact has been with CONCORD, and uniformly hostile. Apparently we do have enough to know that they’re radically different from us in some way. But we don’t really know how they differ.

Do I have this more or less right, pilots?


(Umbre Fallenstar) #12
  • Why do they live in Abyssal Space?

Nothing more to add on what Miss Jenneth said except that it’s possible that they were “trapped” here. I’m writting an short essay on gravitational anomalies and it’s possible that the WH opening rate and the access to abyssal deadspace are fluctuating in time, meaning that it’s possible that the TC were “trapped” inside AD and could be accessed only recently.

  • Is it due to a seperation from the Jovians?

As I said in mysummary of what we know of TC we simply don’t know for sure yet and I share my opinion with miss Jenneth on the talocan similarities.

  • Or are they a completely separate race?

Since concord stated that they are “human in origins”, it’s a no.

  • Can they survive outside Abyssal Space?

That’s also one of the question I raised in my thread. While the ship is easy enough to survive inside our space , the crew “could” be not anymore adapted to our space (solar radiations for example) and therefore the ship concord “retrieved” could actually be void of life.

  • Have they made unofficial contact with any of the Empires? If so what is the nature of that contact.

Again, I can’t really add new information in what Miss Jenneth said. We don’t know. If someone have more information, I do not know and really hope they’ll share anything they could have.


(Avio Yaken) #13

Bah! A simple one.

In order for us to be apart of this physical realm made for the living. We require flesh, a body, a shell to give refuge to our spirit. Though this flesh we interact and commune with the world and experience various sensations within. Pain, pleasure, heat and cold.

Engineered? Most are born with their flesh. But in terms of us? Our clones are created with technology. Biomass molded into replacements for us to use. Frankly? Nothing quite to wrong with it. We’re made of natural material from the Maker’s universe.

Discard the body incapable of sustaining life. Then what you have is a spirit either needing to move on and take form in the spiritual realm. Or move onto the next shell molded just for him or her to call home.

Once the two are combined? Life begins anew. Oxygen fills the lungs and from there the cycle restarts.

…In before someone starts trying to use this to get me to sympathize with those corpse defiling Drifters, again. For the last time – you have to recycle the body and build a clone based on your DNA!


(Arrendis) #14

Ok, but… can you please demonstrate some proof that the meat-puppets the Drifters use… aren’t based on their DNA? You got some genuine not-from-a-wreck Drifter DNA laying around to compare?


(Avio Yaken) #15

I must be ignorant, because I dont see why it would be any different from a wreck? Maybe the reason I dont have such DNA is because it might not even exist.

If I’m to believe the Drifters have been using their “own” DNA. Then it would most likely be DNA connected to to those mutants we call Jovians.

So, not human so far.

Then, we got the absurd amount of augmentation that stuff ino their bodies. Yes, yes, point to the sockets in the back of my neck all you desire. But I’m still more human than machine.

So not only would these Drifters be using DNA of mutants. But also be more machine than organic.

So, what are you trying to get at?


(Slayer Liberator) #16

How would you separate a heavily augmented cappsuleer such as myself from the Drifters exactly? What do you think makes us so different?


(Avio Yaken) #17

Your damn close to getting there. I’ll be honest about that.

But you seem to posse emotions

You have unique features, like your hair, eyes and voice. You have an identity.

I assume you haven’t tampered the genetics handed down to you from your ancestors.

You don’t behave like some autonomous drone.

You talk

And I’m hopefully assuming your not yanking corpses off a battlefield, ripping out parts of it and replacing it with augemntentations like you got some sick fetish that would only be legal in about…What? Six federal colonies?

Should I list more?


(Arrendis) #18

Well, because you’re claiming they’re not basing the new bodies on their own DNA. Unless you’ve got an example of Drifter DNA that doesn’t come from one of these reconstituted bodies, though, you can’t say for sure if the DNA-chains their engineering are copies of their original DNA or not. You don’t need a human corpse to mix up the right combinations of ACGT, after all. So why would they?

So a human with a mutation isn’t human? I’m sure everyone born XXY or with genetic birth defects feels very warmed and cheered by your assertion.

No you’re not. You’re a machine implanted into a human body. Your mind is a computer code simulation of a human mind, based on a copy of the mind of a guy who died in flight school.

Many suffer from CDS. Many more simply act emotionless during a fight. More’s the point: How do you know they don’t have emotions? Because they’re not showing them to you? Do you open up to your enemies about your childhood, your friends, your vulnerabilities?

Uh-oh, now we’re adding twins and triplets to the list of non-humans…

And again, you don’t know that they don’t have distinct identities, only that they’re not willing to present them to us. You see ‘autonomous drones’, but it could just be ‘well-disciplined soldiers’. You get on them for not talking, but why would they want to?

We have established social venues among the capsuleer community. We talk here, or on the neocomm channels, or on the rare occasion that it happens, in person. Remove those, and what’s left? Talking in local? When I’m on deployment, I absolutely do not. We have entire SIGs that have a ‘no talking in local’ rule.

No, you’re yanking corpses out of a processing vat, ripping out parts of it and replacing it with augmentations like your pod implants.

You are a product of exactly the same process they use, the only difference is that we have hundred of planets set up to produce the biomass we need. Give them a century and see if they’re still bothering with corpse harvesting in space (Hint: They won’t be. They haven’t killed nearly enough capsuleers to account for the massive number of their ships we’ve seen and destroyed. Yes, they’re also recovering what are likely their own bodies from the Anoikis structures, but it’s also highly probable that they’ve initiated artificial biospheres (like hydroponics… they do still need to fuel those bodies, after all) that we just haven’t found yet.


(Avio Yaken) #19

I will admit that after recalling the autopsy a few years back. That the Drifters are based off some genetic code that is similar to the Jovians. So DNA, possiblity.

But then I just turn to the fact that the Jovian are mutants…So doesnt change much for me.

This is a cute comparison.

See, here the Jovians were once human use forbidden science to twist their own genetics. Then force those gentics down to the next generation. All in some mad quest to achieve “human perfection”. In reality they’ve abandoned their humanity and became the Jovians.

This is their own doing.

Anyone who is born with a birth defect was not chosen to have a defect. Simply they were dealt a bad hand by fate. Nobody forced this anomaly upon them. If anything, this could be chalked up to neglect on the parent’s part if they were polluting themshelves during pregnancy. Having a extremely poor diet or if the child was a product of incest.

At the point, its should be discussed if the child can make something of themshelves with these defections. Or if mercy should be applied if they’re to crippled to even care for themshelves in the later years.

Hey, being honest with you here.

If that’s how you view yourself then I feel pity for you, pilot.

Personally I represent though mind, soul and body…

Thank you for correcting that typo I made. I admit I’m not the great with a keyboard.

In terms of CDS, mental health. That can be treated with professional help. In terms of the Drifters it could be said they’ve had such functions removed (Along with organs). Afterall, Joviand have a history of removing bits of their psychology. Biggest example would be their aggression being curbed during their self mutilation of their humanity.

As for those that remain emotionless soring a fight - there’s admiration for those that can have that self control. But that doesnt mean they dont have them, yes.

So they could have them - but from what we’ve all seen? They have none. Hell, you’re here presenting only the plasuiblity they might have them. You have no proof or examples to show me that they might have emotions. Only telling me “Well they might have them! So you’re wrong!”

Also your example is rather exaggerated. No, I dont tell my life story to everyone I meet. But I show emotion in my interactions. I’ve been here announcing my passion to see the Drifters destroyed afterall

When I’m cruising Black Rise looking for a fight. I sometimes strike up a conversation with those I’m either defeated by or defeat myself. Sometimes mutual respect is gained (along with some advice and neat ship fittings) and other times it ends with bitterness between us.

Of course, this is different than fleet ops. But when it’s just me and another pilot. It’s just a warrior versus another warrior. Could end with a simple “Good fight” or I might make a new friend.

No

Unlike the Drifters who force this same bland, plain look on all the corpses they defile. Creating a uniform out of the body itself

Twins are born sharing the same physical identity at times, yes. But may carry different personalities, voices, ambitions, talents, ideologies, loyalties and opinions.

Of course, if you want to be anal about it and talk about the twins who of exact mind who share their personalities…That’s still fine. They’re human.

Interestingly enough it is suggested they’ve spoken to us already. With the idea that they were using Hilen Tukoss as a puppet on the IGS years back.

If so - they’re first example of ever talking to us - was to manipulate us.

Diplomacy is still a major of communications. Especially between factions. What kind of nation do you think were dealing with when our only example of communications was a deceptive play and after that, proceeded to take countless hostile actions against civilized space.

Hell, SoCT is getting seiged right now.

Not even the courtesy of an offical declaration of war. Even goons make those kinds of announcements in their long history.

Also in person? They don’t even have vocal cords to speak with. You and I do on the other hand.

Did you know that Drifter bodies are propped up with augmentations? Their bodies only function because they’ve absurd amount of augmentations in them to get them running.

I on the other hand don’t go that far. This implants already pushes it. But a vast majority of my body is still organic.

In a way, it is a machine. But an organic one at that. A natural one that is not proped up with gears.

My body is not taken from a battlefield and stuffed with augmentations from head to toe. It is built from scratch using biomass.

Sleepers or Jovian? Neither are human last I checked…

You do know that Capsuleers will pod a pilot and just leave their corpse behind, right? I’ve passed many gates in low security space that had one or three corpses floating there.

Personally I make a responsibility to clean up these corpses if I can. If in theheat of the moment? Lock it up and blast it to destroy it. No ritual to it sadly, but I rather do that than leave it for some Drifter to scoop up or have some other Capsuleer hold it as some trophy in a freezer.

But if I got the time. I’ll give the body a more formal destruction. Whatever to burn it or biomass it is up to debate.


(Arrendis) #20

Forbidden by whom?

Right. They didn’t choose it any more than those ‘next generation’ Jovians chose it. Fate forced it on them. Doesn’t make them non-human.

One of which gets literally translated into binary code for transmission along a fluid router network whenever you jump clone or get podded, another you can’t even prove exists, and the third is reconstituted biomass taken by force from non-consenting life forms of a different species than yourself.

Sound familiar?

No, I’m telling you: ‘You have no proof that they don’t’. Granted, it’s impossible to prove a negative, but since we know that basically every form of life experience and registers measurable biochemical reactions to stress and positive stimuli—exactly the things that trigger ‘emotions’ in animals also produce physiological responses in plants, fungi, etc, there’s just no brain, so we don’t call them the same thing—in order to claim they don’t have emotions (as opposed to ‘they don’t express emotions’), you’d have to show that they don’t have biochemical (mostly endocrine) reactions to stimuli, like dopamine release (pleasure, happiness, contentment), adrenaline (fear, anger, etc), and so on.

Not everyone does. Not everyone has the same range of emotional responses. Spend some time with a legitimate Disassociative some time, or an extreme Asperger’s case.

The Amarr Empire? Oh, wait, they didn’t even bother with a deceptive play or any communication at all. They just attacked.

If they feel they’re responding to our invasion of their space, why would such a declaration be needed? Do you think we made some official declaration of war when the MBC attacked two years ago? Did TEST declare war when we invaded Fountain three years before that?

The Amarr didn’t give us any notification of a formal declaration of war before they invaded. We certainly didn’t go into Anoikis and say ‘hey, look, there’s these huge structures with stasis’d bodies inside! We should try to actually make contact like civilized people’, did we? We showed up, triggered their automated defenses, dropped a couple of scientific expeditions, and then said ‘ok, folks, go blow their stuff up and salvage it so we can make Strategic Cruisers. If they don’t like it, maybe they shouldn’t be napping!’

Well… seems they’re done napping. And they don’t like it. So why should they attempt diplomacy any more than we did? What, we want to talk now, since they demonstrated they can blow up an Empress? Yeah, that sounds sincere.

Sure you do. Your body gets grown in a medical clone bay, and it doesn’t work until the implants kick in to flash-grow your brain. Your 100% artificial, genetically-engineered-because-natural-neurons-don’t-grow-that-fast-or-predictably brain. The whole thing is a machine. Yes, it’s a biotech machine… but it’s not natural in any way.

Tell that to the animals whose biomass you reuse. Would they have fought back, if given the chance? Do you think they wanted to be killed and turned into you?

Neither are the cows, roes, plants, and other non-human biomass we use to build new clones out of. But you claim the body you build out of them is. Last time I checked, homo sapiens gives birth, it doesn’t reproduce by cloning.

You do know that still doesn’t account for even 1/10th the number of confirmed Drifter sightings, right?