ECM jammers redesign idea


(Xairn Blackscale) #1

Well, I got proposition to redesign ECM in a manner of Sensor Boosters or Sensor dampeners.

Make them loadable with scripts for each type of sensors and take Multi-spectral jammers as a base. In this manner you can make just 6 item types - Basic, Enduring, Compact, Scoped, T2 and Faction - instead of 24 and 4 types of jamming scripts. Jammers will become more versatile too.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #2

no that choice before you undock is a big part of ECM.

your change would require such a major nerf to ecm they would be useless


(Chocolate Pickle) #3

Tracking Disruptors are useless against missiles.

Missile Guidance Disruptors are useless against turrets.

Dampeners are useless against close ships.


Why should there be an ewar that’s capable of affecting everyone so effectively?

What you’re asking for is this: homogeneity.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #4

Did you just say damps are useless against close ships?


(Chocolate Pickle) #5

I did. But at the time I completely forgot about scan-res scripts.

I always load range. Derp.


(elitatwo) #6

…and I hate being right all the time…


(Old Pervert) #7

I’d rather see racial jammers, that can either be scripted as their specific racial or unscripted as multi.

Gives you a bit more flexibility, which I believe is warranted, without removing the strategic decision of which jammer to fit for maximum benefit.

All of the other EWARs have holes in their utility, as @Chocolate_Pickle stated, however all of the other EWAR don’t have RNGesus waiting to bend them over, which to me is ECM’s “utility hole”.

Edit:
To be more specific on utility hole disparity:

  • Weapon Disruption has 2 different modules, turret or guidance, meaning that they need only make fitting decisions based on 2 different modules. Scripts allow either choice to be very effective.
  • RSD is mostly useful for range damps, but scan res has certain benefits… no real hole there, just different applications. 1 module to choose from.
  • Webs and painters are of limited usefulness when fighting big stuff that is already “big/slow enough”. I would contend though that this limit is not often met in the wild. Not much in the way of a utility hole. One module to choose from, for each.

Then there’s ECM, of which you have 5 different flavours of modules you can fit. By making racial modules unscripted as multis, you drop that down to 4 different flavours of modules.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #8

Then unless you know what you’re going up against you just fit caldari and amarr jammers.


(Old Pervert) #9

Just like with TD boats, unless you know what you’re facing you fit tracking disruptors. Or if you’re in a sensor damping boat, you fit… sensor damps. Or if you’re in a webbing ship you fit… webs… need I continue?

It would be no different than any other ewar boat in that case. One gravi and one radar. Reasonably effective against 50% of ships, “less effective” against 50% of ships.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #10

that’s part of the problem homogeneity is boring.

not only that but with this you take away one of the main balancing factors of ecm. needing to chose between range power and versatility. more risk better reward. there is no issue with this. if they really wanted to reduce the number of mods then they should reduce the number of useless meta variations.


(Lukett MyDabb) #11

Not sure if intentional but I rofl’d anyway.


(Chocolate Pickle) #12

The prime problem with ECM is that there’s no on-field counterplay.

Damps and TD can be mitigated by flying skill (move closer or minimise transversal).

Paint and web, in what I consider to be true Minmatar fashion, help apply damage to the target ship. They
don’t negatively affect the offensive abilities of the ship at all. A painted ship can shoot and target just as well as non-painted ship. Likewise true for a webbed ship.

As such, the counterplay is completely different to TD and Damps.

ECM has an effect on the targeting ability of the victim ship. But there’s no counter play. If you have a SeBo fitted, you put in an ECCM script and hope for the best. Piloting doesn’t really have an effect. You can technically fly out of range of ECM, but that usually adversely affects your ability to apply damage.

Further to this, with skills and rigs, ECM applies well way outside of weapon optimal, and ECM ships have the longest targeting range of ships of their size.

TLDR: ECM applies too far out for it to be solely a random chance of applies-fully/no-effect.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #13

You mean like closing range adversely effects your ability to apply damage as well? Also what exactly is the counter play to having your scan res damped? At least with jams any ship that can effectively use them is forced off grid by a sneeze

Only issues with ecm is that it has no stacking penalty and it can have its rng completely removed.

Ecm is the most skill intensive e-war to use it is also by far the weakest in an actual fight. Being completely and totally out done by damps.


(Chocolate Pickle) #14

Flying closer does have that effect on your application as well, but ECM applies with equal strength at all ranges within Optimal.

I guess making ECM follow something like a turret application curve would also all for some counter-play.

With res-scripts, the effect is transient. It goes away by itself after a time.

Have you considered that this is a result of its otherwise oppressive stats in small-gang fights?

I believe it is the least skill intensive. By virtue of a single mulitplier difference.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #15

Then you have not done much with e-war. ECM requires as much focus and more coordination than logistics if you want to actually be effective and not just a nuisance.


(Chocolate Pickle) #16

Do you mean SP, or like intelligence?

I guess in that case you’re right.


(Old Pervert) #17

:wink:

:peach::eggplant:


(Old Pervert) #18

ECCM is indeed the best counter. In any gang fight with more than 2v2 though, the ECM boat will not be able to stay on grid. Falcon is primary. 10/10 would shoot again.

Not if you’re logi. I can swap targets all day, and I can do it way faster than you if you’re getting res damped. By doubling your lock time, I double the time it takes for reps to go out. If that gives me time to break through the target’s buffer before you can get reps off, it’s only a function of time until something dies.

ECM is only oppressive in small gang. It’s utterly useless in anything larger. All other ewar is useful in larger fights, by virtue of the fact that it has 100% reliability.

I agree with Lugh that ECM requires more focus than any other ewar, given the drawbacks that all ecm boats face.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #19

I meant intelligence but both is true.
do to the nature of ECM in order to be truly worth while you need the ship and strength skills at V most of the other E-war you can get away with not even having t2 trained


(system) #20

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