ECM as actual ewar countermeasures

EVE Technology and Research Center Player Features & Ideas
1

An idea I had for reworking ECM to make it as close to how “Electronic Counter-Measures” are supposed to logically function would be abandoning its usage against sensor systems entirely, and reworking them as anti-electronic warfare platforms for specific kinds of modules.

Magnetometric ECM gets reworked to Disruption CM, reducing the effective range of disruptors and scramblers on enemy craft

Ladar ECM gets reworked to Stasis CM, reducing the effective range of stasis webifiers and grapplers on enemy craft.

Radar ECM gets reworked to Neutralizer CM, reducing the effective range of energy neutralizers and energy vampires on enemy craft.

Gravimetric ECM gets reworked to ECCM, reducing the effective range of ecm modules on enemy craft.

Multispectral ECM gets reworked to Efficiency CM, increasing the capacitor cost of ALL electronic warfare modules. The point has also been raised with the other modules being scripts, although I think for this model keeping them separate would help with potential power curve issues, since ECM modules aren’t locked to ships with bonuses on them. That would prevent it from becoming a standard outfit for pvp fits.

This makes ECM ships the correct ships to use in fleets to COUNTER enemy ewar, which is, technically speaking, what they should be doing, and the currently bonused ecm ships would benefit best from.

EDIT: Another idea I’d like to toss in for discussion would be range & strength scripts for ECM and possibly webs & target painters. While it’s separate to the ecm balance, I think adding scripts that let you choose between increasing range at the cost of module strength and visa-versa would help out with balance and nice issues, especially if it comes with something like a penalty to extra capacitor usage for either of them

5 Likes
2

Interesting idea. I’m not sure what to think. +1 for creative thinking.

4 Likes
3

I think that’s the 1st time you ever said that.

Edit; you have the time and resources to test it though. I don’t.

4

Usually I just don’t type anything when I am nonplussed. However, I wanted to give the OP some encouragement before all the haters came along.

5 Likes
5

While this isn’t a terrible suggestion… certainly has some merit
It has the same issue as the current ECM, it has way too many modules so you always have the wrong one.
I would rather see it taken back to just multi spectrum, then add a script which has a reload time to focus it on one particular thing (Note, this should be true for TD/MD also).
That way you actually have a practical module which isn’t always going to be the wrong one for what you are facing.

I do have a concern that there are no modules which increase the range of any of the items which it targets here. And I note that ECM itself gets a free pass from being ECM’ed in the list as well. That might be more appropriate than command bursts.

1 Like
6

While ECM was op in it’s day. ( :skull_and_crossbones: ) And as much as I miss that. It would nice to find a new purpose for it.

7

That’s because it would then become a must-have module that you would be forced to include in your fit because you never know whether the other guy is going to have one or not, and vice versa. So, if you both have an anti-ECM module fit, you will both just be sitting there with your thumb up your ass…

1 Like
8

Eh, fair point I guess. Doesn’t answer the other concerns but hmmm, guess nothing really will, and it’s not like I’ll flip a table over it.

9

Good point with the gravimetric redesign; ECCM makes more sense in that role. I’ll change the post to reflect that.

Scripts would just add those features in like the infinite point script for Hictor bubbles works. I’d support the idea of it doesnt ■■■■ up the power curve too much, but I want to balance it so it wouldn’t be needed or extremely useful on pvp builds like webs or nests might be.

10

I like the direction you’re going overall, but it would yield one very particular, and likely unintentional, quirk: it would leave ECM ships with no way to disrupt any ship that doesn’t have EWar fit. While useful, it would definitely be a decrease in utility.

To help combat this limitation, I would consider a slightly different mix that isn’t quite so limited to impacting EWar:

Sensor Countermeasures - reduce the effectiveness of all active sensor boosting/disrupting modules (sensor boosters, remote sensor boosters, networks sensor arrays, damps, ECM, and target painters)

Weapon Countermeasures - reduce the effectiveness of all active weapon boosting/disrupting modules (tracking computers, missile guidance computers, remote tracking computers, remote missile guidance computers, and weapon disruptors)

EDIT: The effectiveness reduction would have to be relatively low, say 30% on a bonused EWar hull with max skills. That’s the price you have to pay for versatility. So it’s not like one of these modules would immediately negate all of the impacted modules on the target ship.

This would have the benefit of only requiring two modules (which is no more than weapon disruptor platforms need) while allowing ECM ships to impact EWar, remote boosting, and, to some extent, regular combat fits. Also note that only active modules would be impacted, so passive local modules would receive a bit of a stealth buff here.

I like the idea of modules to reduce the effectiveness of tackle…but given how delicately tackle ranges are balanced I feel like that would be tricky to implement, plus it would likely require its own module which detracts from the “two module” appeal here.

I also like the idea of modules to reduce the effectiveness of remote capacitor modules (cap transfers, NOS, Neut) and even remote reps, but that feels less like ECM and more like counter-logistics so maybe it should get its own platform type.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Oh, and do away with SDAs so ECM boats can actually use their low slots.

1 Like
11

So… basically a better TD & a better damp…
And when you combo them with a real TD or Damp, it’s insane?

Yeah I prefer the initial idea, as it doesn’t create as powerful combos.

1 Like
12

Better…how? If a ship isn’t using a tracking computer or a sensor booster, neither countermeasure module in my comment would have any effect on them at all. And even if they were, the impact would be limited to the bonus those modules provided.

Worth noting: I said “reduce the effectiveness of”, not “totally negate”. There’s a lot of room to balance there. Modules this broad would likely only get relatively small reduction amounts, say…30% with good skills on a dedicated EWar hull? So two of these sensor countermeasures would reduce the effectiveness of all of a target’s sensor boosters by about 55% (after stacking penalties), whereas a single bonused damp can reduce the ships total targeting range (or scan resolution) by about the same amount. It’s pretty clear that the latter is far more “powerful” than the former in terms of reducing targeting range or scan resolution, but it’s also less versatile.

I edited my initial comment to better reflect this. Thanks.

Out of curiosity (and I’m asking this sincerely), how often do you see EWar types mixed on non-comedy EWar platform fits? It all comes back to how strong you make the modules. Modules this versatile would have to be pretty weak on their own.

13

ECM was fine, the biggest problem with ECM was min maxers and player ignorance.

They just need to revert the change to make the target not target back.

14

Yeah logi doesn’t fall under the electronic warfare tab or this particular setup, but old ECM did provide some good counter to logi chains, so i can see where you’re coming from.

15

That’s a big part of how the this system would work, since it has two separate modules for busting tackle with shorting web and scram range. Think about how useful that would would be on the recon ships, or even the Griffin Navy Issue if we’re looking at tiny ships. It’s got good crossover utility between solo and fleet pvp.

1 Like
16

Odd i thought existing modules were designed to counter the effects of most ECM modules.

Sensor boosters, including remote increase sensor strength and thus harder to be effected.

Tracking and ballistic computer with scripts counter disruptors.

Im sure there are other modules that counter other ECM effects.

1 Like
17

Nice idea, I would add some type of ECM against warp disruption /scram, and remove stabs. think scrams are such a win button.

19

People like to pretend those don’t exist.

Even in the Dev BLOG before ECM was nerfed the developer pretended those counters didn’t exist.

Min maxers don’t like to “waste” a slot on an ECM counter :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

1 Like
20

Strange that!

Everytime Trigs disrupt my turrets, i just change scripts and ammo to counter it.

And AfterBurners can’t stop webs, but they at least it improves the velocity above the reduced velocity.

There’s loads of them.

21

First one on there is Disruptor CM, reducing range for disruptors and scramblers.