Egmar: the Fall

[Aldrith_Shutaq]

Brother Merdaneth, some gentle advice: the only place appropriate to express your concerns over this matter is now on the battlefield. The rebels seem to be doing this better than we are, which means the only thing we need to think about is improving ourselves and once again claiming dominance of the systems in question.

I have long grown tired of the blithering and hand-wringing of those who have no business pretending they have the ability to know better than the leaders of New Eden. The die has been cast without our knowledge or consent; we may only bet on the numbers that turn up. Or, in the case of someone with ships and pilots at their disposal, try to make the dice show what they believe are the right ones. So, if you disagree with the current projected outcomes, shut up and get in fleet.

[Xuixien]

@Merdaneth

You also indicate that it is unfair that the Amarr reaped the benefits of a joint operation just because it happened to be in their territory. Once again, the Edencom council has approved this. Everything has been by the book and according to rules all parties agreed to. In your words, the organization that helped the Amarr Empire acquire the vase agreed to them keeping it.

When agreed upon rules don’t benefit the Minmatar, they cry foul and injustice and do what they do best: wreck things.

[Kitaula_Kuusa_Jouhinen]

You bring up a really great point. I sure as hell hope this can be used as weapon against the Triglavians.

Shame it wasn’t shared with EDENCOM and the other three empires, so that the entire cluster could have access to this research. You know, since it’s a cluster-wide issue? But no, it was hoarded by the Empire, built in a controversial and offensive manor, and very much looks like a threat against the Minmatar. And don’t give me this about “Oh, but the Amarr Empire is a shield for all the cluster! We’re so noble!” Yeah just because you were effective doesn’t mean that once the Trigs are dealt with, you wouldn’t turn your military sights on other empires. Your history is one of conquest, you only tried co-existance since the Jove punched you in the face.

[Merdaneth]

@Arsia_Elkin

You’re once again showing how disingenuous you are. Regardless of whether or not the Amarr occupation in the systems was legal under the CEMWPA, there’s a reason why the Empire chose occupied Republic systems inhabited by Minmatar rather than its own systems full of its own subjects for messing with the stars. To claim that it was a coincidence of any sort would be absurd.

Traitor Elkin, have you lost your mind? I’ve never claimed it was a coincidence, where did I claim that? For the record, I do not like the choice of the systems for the experimental transmuters, although I admit I’m likely not privvy to all the information that led up to this choice.

Furthermore, it is not a secret that the Amarr Empire generally considers lives of heathens and heretics to be worth less than the lives of the devout. I have no doubt that contributed to the choice of the systems.

I am perhaps mistakenly assuming that you think all lives should be valued equally. Because if you do so, would it not make sense to place the installations in the systems with the smallest populations so to mitigate the consequences of an accident? Vard, Egmar and Turnur have never been known as major population centers and with the constantly changing occupancy status over the last years, many people have fled. Collateral damage would be minimal.

Not only that, if the Republic would manage to claim the systems, they, under the Yulai Accords, have a reasonably claim on the ownership of those transmuters, even if they were originally installed by the Empire.

So, traitor Elkin, since you dislike the Empire’s choice of systems, but are not against developing the technology: would you have preferred the transmuters to be in a systems that is firmly within the Empire, has more people living in it, but with a smaller population of tribal heathens? A system that the militia would not be able to attack and where you would have no chance of acquiring this technology without starting an open war?

I might be harsh and you I might have some opinions you strongly disagree with, but I am honest and reliable. The word ‘disingenious’ is better reserved for someone who puts words in anothers mouth, like you did when you said I claimed the chosen system were coincidence. Perhaps should outburst gain you some sort of ‘street cred’ with the tribals, but I prefer you to please put more care into your ramblings in the future.

[Arsia_Elkin]

@Merdaneth

For the record, I do not like the choice of the systems for the experimental transmuters, although I admit I’m likely not privvy to all the information that led up to this choice.

Furthermore, it is not a secret that the Amarr Empire generally considers lives of heathens and heretics to be worth less than the lives of the devout. I have no doubt that contributed to the choice of the systems.

Thank you for stating that. It’s nice to see that you have some honesty in you. Maybe I was mistaken and you’re simply earnestly deluded rather than dishonest. So if that’s the case, I do offer an apology for calling you disingenuous.

@Merdaneth

I am perhaps mistakenly assuming that you think all lives should be valued equally.

That is not how I think. Were there only a dozen Minmatar left, at this point I’d slaughter all of you to protect them if need be. I however don’t enjoy the idea and would rather the conflict could end with no loss of life. The main problem being, ending the conflict is impossible as long as the Empire continues to hold even a single Minmatar in chains.

I think that if the Empire wants to develop risky technology, the lives at risk should the technology have issues should be Amarr ones. To put Minmatar lives at risk is to use the technology’s development as a weapon against the Minmatar and it begins a cycle of encouraging each of the empires to look for ways to use everything and anything in such a weapon in such a manner.

@Merdaneth

since you dislike the Empire’s choice of systems, but are not against developing the technology

I am against developing the technology in any star system that has people. I think that were cost and logistics not an issue, that would be ideal. But logistics and cost are an issue. If the transmuters are however in Minmatar hands and the Republic makes decisions regarding its own space and people, at least the Republic is benefiting from it and not those who seek to destroy it and its people.

@Merdaneth

Perhaps should outburst gain you some sort of ‘street cred’ with the tribals, but I prefer you to please put more care into your ramblings in the future.

I assure you, more thought goes into my words than yours. You clearly don’t question the lies you’re fed. I’ll be ever-so-merciful and give you the benefit of the doubt, though. Maybe you are genuine.

[Mizhara_Del_thul]

@Arsia_Elkin

The main problem being, ending the conflict is impossible as long as the Empire continues to hold even a single Minmatar in chains.

Ooooh, ginger careful now. You’re starting to appeal to a demographic that tends to be unpopular even among your new kin.

[Anna_Stjornauga]

@Kitaula_Kuusa_Jouhinen

Shame it wasn’t shared with EDENCOM and the other three empires, so that the entire cluster could have access to this research.

Sharing these techs among the signatories would count among the Yulai obligations, too.

@Merdaneth

Vard, Egmar and Turnur have never been known as major population centers and with the constantly changing occupancy status over the last years, many people have fled.

Still, the contrasting numbers between the expectation you espouse and the numbers fleeing these systems is significant. Those populations often can’t pay for relocations. War, peace, funds are fixed.

@Merdaneth

So, traitor Elkin, since you dislike the Empire’s choice of systems, but are not against developing the technology: would you have preferred the transmuters to be in a systems that is firmly within the Empire, has more people living in it, but with a smaller population of tribal heathens?

Why not use stellar solos? The cluster has populations round stellar pairs. Every system folks use, there are two gas balls glowing. Or… use the Drone Regions.

And Val: Still all prime numbers. The point is clear, yes? Sod off.

[Merdaneth]

@Anna_Stjornauga

Still, the contrasting numbers between the expectation you espouse and the numbers fleeing these systems is significant. Those populations often can’t pay for relocations. War, peace, funds are fixed.

As stated before, I am not a proponent of this choice of locations on the basis of the knowledge I have.

@Anna_Stjornauga

Why not use stellar solos? The cluster has populations round stellar pairs. Every system folks use, there are two gas balls glowing. Or… use the Drone Regions.

I do not know, but I do believe few systems are actually suited that are connected to the Stargate system. And most of those systems have inhabitations of some sort.

The drone regions are outside of Amarr jurisdiction and military influence. Other parties there would have no doubt appropriated the installations for themselves with little chance of military resistance.

[Merdaneth]

@Arsia_Elkin

So if that’s the case, I do offer an apology for calling you disingenuous.

Apology accepted.

@Arsia_Elkin

That is not how I think. Were there only a dozen Minmatar left, at this point I’d slaughter all of you to protect them if need be. I however don’t enjoy the idea and would rather the conflict could end with no loss of life. The main problem being, ending the conflict is impossible as long as the Empire continues to hold even a single Minmatar in chains.

This extreme position you take makes me sad. All such expressions encourage those who advocate war to pursue it to the fullest. But, you have a history of completely changing your outlook and allegiance: that gives me hope traitor Elkin.

I think that if the Empire wants to develop risky technology, the lives at risk should the technology have issues should be Amarr ones. To put Minmatar lives at risk is to use the technology’s development as a weapon against the Minmatar and it begins a cycle of encouraging each of the empires to look for ways to use everything and anything in such a weapon in such a manner.

@Arsia_Elkin

I assure you, more thought goes into my words than yours. You clearly don’t question the lies you’re fed. I’ll be ever-so-merciful and give you the benefit of the doubt, though. Maybe you are genuine.

You are make more assumptions and guesses here. Perhaps you should investigate things more closely rather then immediately condemning or judging. However, our debate is now carrying us off the topic of Egmar, so I will not continue it here for the benefit of the other readers.

[Merdaneth]

@Aldrith_Shutaq

Brother Merdaneth, some gentle advice: the only place appropriate to express your concerns over this matter is now on the battlefield. The rebels seem to be doing this better than we are, which means the only thing we need to think about is improving ourselves and once again claiming dominance of the systems in question.

I think we should do both. Be adamant and fierce on the battlefield but wise, understanding but honest and strict when engaging in conversation. Our opponents are capsuleers after all. We cannot permanently silence them, either we put so much battle fatigue on them that they stop flying or we convince them there are other ways to solve this conflict by dialogue.