You would likely end up with less bang per account than a current combat/assault battleship.
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If your friend will start to gate camp in HS with an escort carrier, people will follow him. As soon as he turns red he will be nuked before concord could catch him.
This is not entirely true. When I made my logi fits, I had those fighters in mind. I don’t go down easy.
I was thinking about a different approach lately, what possible mechanics and purpose the escort ships could have.
Let me ask this: how true is that a marauder is a discount dreadnought? How much does it exist to introduce dreadnought mechanics on a subcapital ship so pilots can test them before investing money and time in capital skills?
Can escort ships be the carrier versions of marauders? If so then what mechanics should they have? What modules should they need?
The bastion and siege modules work similarly: they both increase local repair, remove the option of remote assistance, lock the ship in place, etc…
I think for carriers the most important functions to keep would be the squadron control, long range combat and the lack of e-war.
The basic stats of the escort ship:
- puts 5 drones in a squadron, so they will be controlled as fighters
- 1 launch tube with 125 mbit bandwidth
- a really decent drone bay
- most likely 4 high slots
- ship maintenance bay (big enough for 1 or 2 frigates maybe?)
- drones stored in the launch tube can be repaired with nanite paste
- about 100 km base targeting and drone control range
- drones get a MWD speed boost ability, so they can move long distances fast once in a while
At this point we basically have a squadron of drones that work really similarly to fighters, including the different abilities, the control functions, and just like fighters, the drones will be idle if they don’t get any orders. Also, you can’t put sentries in squadrons, and only drones of the same type can be in a squadron, so you can’t have mixed damage or abilities.
The Networked Sensor Array is replaced with:
Targeting Array Extender
50% bonus sensor strength
50% bonus scan resolution
100% bonus targeting range
no e-war ability while active
And a unique module instead of the fighter support unit:
Auxiliary Drone Dispenser
+1 drone squadron launcher
125 Mbit bandwidth
This extra bandwidth doesn’t add to the base value, so with one of these installed you don’t have 250 mbit, but 2x125 mbit. This is important, because regardless of the sum of the bandwidth you have, you will never be able to fly a squad of 5 Geckos, only squads of 2 geckos with 25 mbit bandwidth waste, and each squad need to be micro-managed separately.
Skills
Escort ship bonuses:
100% bonus drone control range
100% bonus to Targeting Array Extender’s targeting range
Battleship bonuses:
faction defense bonuses
drone bonuses
Role bonuses:
can fit Targeting Array Extender and Auxiliary Drone Dispenser modules
the Escort ship bonuses don’t apply in hi-sec
They don’t volley Logi easily now but the Rockets would absolutely nuke them with 2-3 Carriers worth on field right after the Carrier changes. Any significant application bonus to those rockets has a good chance of bringing that back.
I’m pretty sure that’s a full carrier worth of DPS before DDAs since you didn’t cap the launch tube module numbers…
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I wasn’t calculating with the damage, I was just trying to figure out the ship’s mechanics. The limit can be made by the number of modules (with or without rigs) or by fitting abilities.
The “drone bonuses” also can mean speed or application, not just damage.
If you are able to use 4 of these modules then you basically have 5 drones with 400% bonus damage and HP, which you must control individually and every 20% HP loss results 20% damage loss too. And you’re also limited to the range of an average battleship.
Five Heavy Drones with a 400% damage bonus would be over 2k DPS, which is pretty much what Carriers get with their rockets factored in. It’s also more than any other Battleship sized hull can get with just a T2 fit. The closest you can get is a Vindicator and that can only project about 1700 DPS out to like 10km (including drones) where as a flight of Heavies with no other modifiers or bonuses can go out to 65k.
I think your idea is a bit OP here.
If you bring the numbers down to something sane you’ve basically got a Dominix or a Rattlesnake. If you don’t you have the return of the Slowcat fleet which was about as fun and engaging as a committee meeting.
I think the limitation of the drone dispenser should be fitting based.
4 modules gives 400% effective drone bonus, but then you are limited to battleship range, and shouldn’t be able to fit any large defensive modules. You are basically a glass cannon who needs to rely on logi support.
3 modules and the targeting array is the “intended” way of fitting, 300% effective drone bonus, almost carrier range and can have a decent tank for it’s size.
2 or fewer modules and a targeting array fitted is where it gets interesting, because you can have a lot of tank. At this point the ship can take the role of an FC that’s quite hard to kill and has enough range to mark targets all over the battlefield.
It’s basically impossible to do this and actually restrict the tank because of the relationship between battleship tank module fitting requirements, battleship fitting amounts, and the effects of fitting expansion modules.
Basically you can fit four of these things, do more DPS than any other Battleship at better range than any other battleship for that DPS, and your only consideration for tank is going to be one or maybe two fitting modules.
Worst case you find a set of numbers that works and you’re still doing over 1500 DPS at holy jesus levels of range, which is more than any other Battleship sized hull can do, and you’re not going to be able to justify that at less than Carrier levels of cost.
I think that a Battleship similar to the Dominix should be refurbished to better suit its role as a Drone Carrier, Light Carrier or Escort Carrier.
The Dominix would have its drone bonuses reworked and would be the following:
(Per level of Gallente Battleship skill)
10% bonus to Drone hit points and damage
5% bonus to Drone optimal range and tracking speed
5% bonus to Drone velocity
5% bonus to Drone falloff
Role Bonus:
can lock at extended ranges (up to 300 km)
5% bonus to Gallente drone damage
1 AU Warp Assistance Range for drones ( uses a special module to accelerate the drones to warp speed)
125% bonus to Armor Plates
10% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener resistance
5x penalty to Entosis Link duration
I don’t want Gallente to have exclusive access to a ship like this, they already have more toys than the other factions.
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Dior Ambraelle - Each race would have it’s own Light Carrier that is a fusion between the Carrier and the Drone Carrier battle ship.
Gallente - Dominix Hull
(Per level of Gallente Battleship skill)
5% bonus to Drone hit points
15% bonus to Small and Medium and Large Gallente Kinetic Drone damage
5% bonus to Drone optimal range and tracking speed
10% bonus to Drone velocity
5% bonus to Drone falloff
Role Bonus:
can lock at extended ranges (up to 400 km)
can attack/repair a target with drones up to 350 km
10% bonus to sensor dampening of Small and Medium and Large Gallente Sensor Dampener Drones
10% bonus to repair amount of Small, Medium and Large Gallente Hull Maintenance Drones
1 AU Warp Assistance Range for drones ( uses a special module to accelerate the drones to warp speed)
100% bonus to Armor Plates
25% bonus to Shield Extenders
10% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener resistance
5x penalty to Entosis Link duration
300 m3 drone bay / 125 Mbit/sec
Amarr - Armageddon Hull
(Per level of Amarr Battleship skill)
10% bonus to Drone hit points
10% bonus to Small and Medium Amarr EM Drone damage
5% bonus to Drone optimal range and tracking speed
5% bonus to Drone velocity
5% bonus to Drone falloff
Role Bonus:
can lock at extended ranges (up to 400 km)
can attack/repair a target with drones up to 360 km
5% bonus to tracking disruption of Small,Medium and Large Amarr Tracking Disruptor Drones
5% bonus to energy neutralization of Small, Medium and Large Amarr Energy Neutralize Drones
5% bonus to repair amount of Small, Medium and Large Amarr Armor Maintenance Drones
1 AU Warp Assistance Range for drones ( uses a special module to accelerate the drones to warp speed)
60% bonus to Armor Plates
60% bonus to Shield Extenders
10% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener resistance
5x penalty to Entosis Link duration
300 m3 drone bay / 125 Mbit/sec
Caldari - Scorpion Hull
(Per level of Caldari Battleship skill)
10% bonus to Drone hit points
10% bonus to Small, Medium and Large Caldari Kinetic Drone damage
10% bonus to Drone optimal range and tracking speed
5% bonus to Drone velocity
10% bonus to Drone falloff
Role Bonus:
can lock at extended ranges (up to 400 km)
can attack/repair a target with drones up to 320 km
10% bonus to ECM of Small,Medium and Large Caldari ECM Drones
10% bonus to repair amount of Small, Medium and Large Caldari Shield Maintenance Drones
1 AU Warp Assistance Range for drones ( uses a special module to accelerate the drones to warp speed)
25% bonus to Armor Plates
100% bonus to Shield Extenders
10% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener resistance
5x penalty to Entosis Link duration
300 m3 drone bay / 125 Mbit/sec
Minmatar - Maelstrom Hull
(Per level of Minmatar Battleship skill)
10% bonus to Drone hit points
5% bonus to Small, Medium and Large Minmatar Explosive Drone damage
10% bonus to Drone optimal range and tracking speed
10% bonus to Drone velocity
5% bonus to Drone falloff
Role Bonus:
can lock at extended ranges (up to 400 km)
can attack/repair a target with drones up to 375 km
10% bonus to the range of target painting of Small,Medium and Large Minmatar Target Painter Drones
5% bonus to signature radius modifier of Small, Medium and Large Minmatar Target Painter Drones
5% bonus to maximum velocity bonus of Small, Medium and Large Minmatar Stasis Webifying Drones
5% bonus to repair amount of Small, Medium and Large Caldari Shield Maintenance Drones
5% bonus to repair amount of Small, Medium, and Large AmarrArmor Maintenance Drones
1 AU Warp Assistance Range for drones ( uses a special module to accelerate the drones to warp speed)
85% bonus to Armor Plates
40% bonus to Shield Extenders
10% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener resistance
5x penalty to Entosis Link duration
300 m3 drone bay / 125 Mbit/sec
While the suggested drone based carriers are certainly interesting, I think they miss the point of the original description of the thread to find a way to make fighters viable on non-capital ships, e.g. battleship sized ships.
Furthermore, I think that the suggested drone based ship are still drone boats, if very advanced drone boats, a role which is already occupied by e.g. the Dominix.
I would rather like to see some fighter based sub-capital carriers. @Arrandis certainly had some interesting suggestion such as “service” time and reduction of the squadron size.
It will also be interesting to see how fighters are handled on the Caiman dreadnaught which will be introduced in the Winter expansion (see EVE Updates). I think this will be the first non-carrier ship (structures excluded) which can use fighters.
Anyway, this is just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.
I think it will be basically a carrier with missile launchers. If it follows the pattern then it will have static fighter bonuses and Gallente skill based missile bonuses (which is the complete opposite of how I would do, but I’m done finding logical reasons behind the dev team’s choices at this point).
Maybe able to use heavy fighters, because why not - I guess.
Unfortunately, people right about the not-yet-found role of these ships. Should they be able to use actual fighters, or would it be enough/better to make them use fighter mechanics on drones? Currently the only thing I’m sure about is these ships should be the T2 versions of the third battleships which have tank bonuses.
Concerning the role of a ligth carrier I personally do not worry too much about a specific role though I know that others will disagree. To me it would be a damage dealer like the other carriers, just on a smaller scale.
Concerning the Caiman, from the description it seems that it will be able to launch light fighters.
From the day of the release forward, I shall be known to only fly the Caldari escort carrier muahahahahaha…
I kinda run out of ideas lately, so let’s try some reverse engineering.
Attack battlecruisers with oversized weapons do battleship levels of damage, but don’t cost as much. Why do they work? It has to be more reasons than they all are gun boats right? Is it because the step between a BC and a BS is much smaller than the step between a BS and a capital?
The attack BC offered trade off that plays together in a balanced way with mix-n-match of characteristic from both hull size. The issue is there is a rather large gap between the carrier and the BS. Potentially too wide to really put something that make sense in-between. What are the core concept of BS and carrier would you mix to get something that isn’t just unbalanced in one way or another?
Honestly the thing that makes this idea not work is tank.
Being totally honest, when I’m micromanaging my fighters, I’m definitely not trying to pilot my ship at the same time. It’s aligned.
If something starts shooting it because I’m not manually piloting, meh. It has enough tank to lol long enough for reps to land.
An attack craft by necessity needs a small tank… so now you’ve got a giant ship (easy dps application) with little manual piloting (unless you’re just going to anchor… but we should never encourage such a strategy as being good), and little/no tank.
Throwing a couple XL guns on a battleship might work better, but not really, when you can basically get volleyed off the grid by a cruiser gang.