Just acouple of XL guns on a BS is also really just BS level of DPS. The reason dreads have a DPS edge is because of siege and there is no point to an “attack battleship” that has to anchor itself in space… At that point, us a battleship and keep moving somewhat slowly or an ABC for close tot he same damage with less tank and more mobility.
No arguments here. I don’t think an attack BS platform will ever have a good place to fit regardless of what you fit on it.
I would like to make have people think about - maybe to get a ship like this we need to rethink the whole drone mechanic as we know it.
Rework control range based on ship size
Rework bandwidth and other features so that drones work more like fighters but fewer control options -
Frigates would have a much shorter base control range of say 10-20km while battleships would be more like 75-150.
With the escort battleship being able to have multiple drone swarms at extended ranges.
Our biggest issue might be that we want fighters in a battleship when maybe we could look at making drone mechanics more like fighter mechanics without the lose of ship control.
Unless you ask the US Navy, they would say that all other navies have Light or Escort Carriers since the largest carrier that doesn’t say US Navy on it is half the tonnage of the USN ones and can only operate 2 wings vs the 5 wings the USN “Super Carriers” have. 
If CCP wanted to make drones work just like fighters, they would have done that when they reworked fighters, but they didn’t. They clearly want drones and fighters to be different things with their own mechanics.
Yes. But we are going all over the place about getting fighters to work.
So maybe reworking drones to be closer to fighters would help
I actually like the fact that we have both. It allows for more variety in game mechanics and makes players able to specialize. Lorewise, drones and fighters are very different beasts.
I don’t think there is a niche that needs to be filled with battleships that have fighters.
Except you just disproved your own argument. The USN very specifically classifies those other vessels as “Carriers” as well as the ones it still has in service and the larger variant with multiple runways and more air wings as “Super Carriers”.
While they may technically not be categorized as carriers, amphibious assault ships are nevertheless carrier-like ships in the sense that they does carry some fighters along with helicopters and they are, as far as I can tell, smaller than ordinary carriers.
For an example, please see the below link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America-class_amphibious_assault_ship
Therefore, I guess the argument of a sub-capital carrier is valid when compared to the real world. However, the question is whether this can translate into a well-balanced ship in EVE.
Still bigger than the carriers of many nation and about the same size as the carrier of other nations.
So, without considering the possible damage and price, we will have a battleship that either has way too much tank for it’s class, or way too little for a fighter micromanagement based gameplay.
I guess the bastion module’s tank and local rep bonus wouldn’t be enough to fix this, right?
I am not denying that the amphibious assault ships of the US navy are of about the same size as carriers of other nations.
I was just using the US navy’s classification of carriers as measuring stick (compared to EVE) to say that they indeed have ships with carrier like qualities that are smaller than carriers and super carriers.
If the amphibious assault ships is the “normal” size of a carrier (compared to carriers of other nations) then you could argue that this size is missing in EVE. However, my main point is that by using the US navy’s carriers as a measuring stick you could argue that a smaller carrier is missing in EVE.
That being said, EVE is a game and a game does far from always mirror the real world. Personally, I would like to see such a ship (and I think it can be done), but that does not mean it will come true. A smaller than ordinary carrier has to fit in the game and if it is detrimental to the game it is not going to happen. In the end it will be for CCP to decide.
On a side note, the suggestion that the answer is a Dominix (or other drone based battle ship), for me this is simply not the case. They are battleships with bonuses to drones - that is it - they are not “light carriers” that can use fighters. In terms of how the drones are used and the number they can use, they are not different than many other ships. They may be the closest thing we will ever get to a sub-capital carrier, but they are not the same 
.
That’s a Dominix. What you’ve just described there is basically a Dominix.
With reference to my previous comment about the Dominix (or other drone boats), I do not see it that way, but you are of course welcome to 
.
CXThe only difference between drones and fighters for a battleship is that drones have to be used on-grid. I don’t think fighters are a sub-capital weapon class, and for anyone who wants to pretend they have a carrier for a BS, you have the Dominix.
I scroll through this thread and I see a lot of ludicrous suggestions for balance for a ship that has no role to fill and is only being suggested to create more hybrid ships like the attack BC’s. This isn’t a good idea that has a natural niche to fill within the game.
It’s funny that you say it like this, because the ABCs (including the Tornado which took the first place, though originally intended to be a battleship) were designed during the same contest where the escort carriers, at least as a concept with graphical design appeared first - as much as I could backtrack it.
Here is the list of the winners by the way:
The idea of the escort carriers isn’t new. I never said it is. But it obviously needs work to figure out how it would be possible to balance them, therefor everyone seem to drop the topic over and over again.
I would like to step back to my reworking drone idea - I personally feel we should move drones closer to fighter mechanics (without the need to unfocus the mothership)
What if we moved drones to being ‘Swarms’ (much like fighter squads) were a swarm equals five (5) drones
Swarms would be Light, Medium, Heavy, Sentry, Support
Drone Bandwidth is gone -
Drone Control Range would be based on the ship class - Drone boats would get a bonus for more range as well as swarm type or number of swarms
- Frigates - 25km - Light swarms
- Destroyers - 35km - Light swarm
- Cruisers - 45km - Medium swarm
- Battlecruisers - 55km - Medium swarm
- Battleships - 75 - Heavy/Sentry swarm
Gallente drone boats would get bonused generally for having their swarm type increased. example: Algos could use a medium swarm. VNI and Ishtar would be able to use Heavy/Sentry Swarms
Amarr Drone boats would tend to be bonused for extra swarms - example: Dragoon would have the ability to have one light combat swarm and one support swarm or two support swarms. The Prophecy would be able to field two medium swarms with a support swarm or three support swarms.
Now you bring in the Escort Carrier Battleship - They would have bonuses for the races sentry swarms - be able to field multiple swarms and fight at extended ranges (300-350km).
I think bringing drones closer to fighter style mechanics without the need to unfocus the mothership would provide more fun ways to engage in New Eden.
Yes drones work in their current state - but I’m not against mechanics being updated to improve the game (though I am against things just changing b/c people want change. I like to see a decent reason)
edit - with the ability to have swarms, we could look at ships like the orca being able to have a combat swarm and a mining swarm out at the same time, giving Orca pilots a stronger support role. Rorquals could say have max of 5 swarm control, with the ability to field up to a max of say 3 combat and up to 5 support.
Many of us micromanage drones in various situations. Swarms would stop us from doing this which would be somewhat annoying.
There is that. which I don’t know how to go about adjusting it. maybe there could be a micro management system added in for finer tuning.
Thinking about it I suppose the focus fire option could switch between swarms and individual drones, though that wouldn’t help with micromanaging drones as they take damage. You’d have to recall the whole swarm which is effectively a nerf to drone ship dps, so dps would have to go up, or velocity change to counter this.
Ed: when you start having to make changes to support other changes I like it less, makes balancing much harder.