The evolution concept is not strictly biological. Sure, now bots cant evolve on their own, they have to be designed by humans and its evolution of code, and the environmental pressure is actions of CCP. Humans can make something extinct, I would like CCP to extinct these cheater bots, using algorithms for finding and banning them, just by looking at actions of these bots.
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So reducing a bot’s production from 23h/day to 12h/day isn’t progress? Obviously bot elimination is the goal, but can’t bot usefulness reduction be an intermediate goal?
I think we could say the most common idea on the other side is “if the idea doesn’t kill 100% of bots and have 0% effect on non-bot players, it’s crap.”
Progress is not binary.
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Thats not what Im saying. But I am saying that they will eliminate that method virtually overnight and live with a reducing in their profits.
Thats certainly not what Im saying. I infact would agree with the people who ask for a combined approach; Investigated bans, Automated auditing and yes even player-aided flagging and destruction.
However, I simply caution against any system that could or would end up with any number of false positives. Auto-banning and player-driven reporting could cause that, if the investigative part was not included, and even then there would be a lot of people who couldnt be bother or would be annoyed by having their account frozen based on essentially witch hunting.
I dont disagree with you or most of the others here in regards to the problem and what can be done about it. (And yes that even includes Salvos.) Im just saying that I like to afk cloak after a hard days work and I aint no bot.
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I wasn’t trying to put words in your mouth. Although we don’t agree on everything, I consider you more of a moderate for most issues on the forums. Sorry if you felt I was twisting your position.
I agree that false positives should be avoided. But a combination of simple things can work, and avoid false positives.
In general these forums have a strawman problem, most of the ideas follow this sort of pattern:
- Complex idea is suggested
- People reply “that’s crap because it wouldn’t work if you use this [simple version of the complex idea that isn’t close to the idea]”
- Suggester of the first idea then spends 12 posts arguing against the simple idea while forgetting the complex idea, and is usually wrong because the simple idea can’t be defended, only the complex one.
For example looking at time logged in and combining it with activity monitoring would get bots and not AFK cloakers.
Yes, they would change their way of doing things. But, because their profits and costs aren’t ISK, but are in the real world, reducing their profits is a great way to get rid of them. Some of the most simple of “botting” software is free, the really good stuff to get around the simple checks costs more. Cutting the time a botter can make ISK and increasing their real world costs are going to be very effective to eliminating bots, maybe even as effective as outright banning them.
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Thank you, and you.
Yeah I concur… especially regarding the forum dynamic 
So many people in this thread must be new here. Talking about bot detection… CCP has already spoken at length about bot detection. They can detect them far easier than players can. And far more accurately. They’ve been using behavioral detection for so very very long now. They know what they are doing. Or at least they used to. (It kinda looks like the only dev that ever did anything about bots doesn’t work there anymore maybe. I wasn’t paying attention if he quit, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he quit because CCP wouldn’t let him ban bots.) There is only a single explanation that is consistent with CCP’s lack of response to bots. They. Don’t. Give. A. ■■■■.
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Not the first time eh?
If I paid attention to any time a CCPer jumped ship, I’d never get anything done. It almost seems like they hemorrhage employees faster than they hemorrhage players.
Maybe bots aren’t having as big an impact as everyone thinks, and CCP will only care when it starts to hurt their bottom line?
CCP why aren’t you banning accounts caught botting permanently???
What purpose is 1month ban are you kidding me?
The only people that actually move to Iceland to work for CCP are the Eve zealots. Basically, you are living on a frozen volcano with 300,000 other people, the size of a mid-size city. Thanks to the banking collapse of 2008 and the crash of the krona, the cost of living is ridiculous (think all the stuff that has to be imported across the North Atlantic). Iceland is a wonderful place to visit, awful place to live long-term. Plus, CCP is known as paying on the bottom half of the industry scale. Until recently, Iceland forbade anyone sending income out of the country, thanks again to the 2008 crash.
So yeah, people get tired of the life, and move on. Further, because of the above situation, CCP can’t attract high quality developers.
The smartest thing the owners of the company could do is to move all existing operations of CCP’s out of the country. Yes, I am aware that some operations are in the U.K. Everything should follow. But because of the clout the moron-in-chief has, that won’t happen. So CCP muddles along, with sub-par talent, who have little resources backing them even if they are good, and the results are what you see.
Botting is just a symptom of far more systemic problems with CCP.
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If you want the same environment of isolation then sure.
I don’t think “jump ship” is an accurate portrayal of how most of their staff leave.
“Walking the plank” feels more accurate. 
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Hold a sec!
Is this a thing?
For bots, especially those in high sec, I would love to see a pop up instructing the bot to do something within X time. Dock up in such and such a station, stop warp for Y amount of time. Now this wouldnt be for players but those bots that CCP has already identified. And if they do not comply within the time limit specified they would simply go suspect.
Then let players sort out justice. Seeing as this eliminates the need for suicide ganking or wasting resources to kill them other than maybe “holy antimatter” as the CODE. crowd loves telling us about it would put a dent in things.
Just make them targets…
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Your comments are becoming more obtuse over time.
Only to someone with very little grasp on reality.
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Guy I know got banned after using mining bot, he received a message he was banned for TOS violation , but the ban is not permanent and it seems he will be able to log after 30 days again.
He wasn’t doing RMT but even then if you are not banning permanently for *botting it sends a wrong message to the legit players. This is wrong.
Umm err umm…
You may have knowingly or unknowingly got the only thread CCP Falcon would allow on the subject of botting locked.
I can’t say I am for the action or against it. ■■■■ I can’t even say I am indifferent to your post. I was looking for a public source.
Beyond that I am utterly speechless and not for what some may be inclined to think.
Umm err umm
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Yes they don’t do instant permaban even if you’re selling the isk you bot up you get 3 strikes then you’re out but the days varies depending on GM moods it seems.You can get 1 week,1month then permaban or 1 month,3month permaban still it’s bad because you give them a heads up basically.