And just how would anyone know if I was a bot or just AFK while getting some food?
Often times I’ll have my ship traveling straight up or down within a system while cloaked to make a safe spot.
Any bot testing is testing “is there a human doing this activity” an empty chair is not a human doing the activity, and therefore must fail any given bot test, or the bot test is completely worthless, if an empty chair counts as human. Also I thought I was clear that it was “when doing these tasks” AND AFK, so I did not include AFK cloaking or AFK station sitting.
Isn’t one of the golden rules of EvE something like you are only safe if you are docked or cloaking in a safe spot? If you go AFK to get some food in any other situation you should not expect to be safe in your absence. And if you aren’t providing any input to the game nor interacting with things in-game (asteroids, rats, etc.) then you wouldn’t be flagged for a challenge anyway.
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Me.
I do that quite a lot. Of course I tend to be folding my washing next to the computer while I’m doing that sort of thing so I’m still present and able to see the screen, and see it landing on every gate, so I’m not even semi afk. But your test just flagged me as a bot, and made me do a captcha for daring to fold my washing.
So yeah. That way my point. Not that there is no way to test for a bot other than 23/7 logged in, but that there is no way to test for a bot that won’t also flag false positives on a regular basis for players.
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Yeah, that’s a point I was trying to make.
No, my test flagged you as deserving a “are you human and playing the game?” challenge.
So you are doing something other than watching the screen and doing nothing other than clicking “jump to gate”.
A human will not do nothing, a human will do something else. If that something else is out of the game, Then the game has every right to ask you if you are a human playing the game.
I also fold washing or watch netflix or other things while doing long series of gate jumps, etc. but that doesn’t mean it’s morally wrong for the game/devs to say “are you really there and human?”
Playing the game like this in a semi-AFK manner is a valid play-style, but it’s also bot-like. You can’t give a pass to challenging bot-like players AND expect any solution to a botting problem.
Bots can’t fake being real active players, but player can fake being bots. If a player is acting like a bot would, then it’s fair to ask them if they are a bot or not. (I didn’t say ban them or anything like that.)
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And then players get annoyed at constantly being tested in a game which they pay to play. It’s a game, we play it for fun, not as a job, well most of us do anyway. So constantly prompting me for a test is going to be a contributing factor to making me leave. And I highly doubt I would be the only person whom this would impact or make have that sort of thoughts.
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Okay, still don’t see this as a problem.
This is to prevent bot scripts running unattended.
It has nothing to do with flagging.
It stops unattended bots that cant overcome the bot-tests.
Im reading a distinctly hostile tone in your responses.
Im just trying to offer/ explore options to mitigate the bot problem.
Well, if you don’t see a problem with captcha in game driving away players, then I guess our view points on this particular matter are just too far apart to reach agreement
CCP banned 32k accounts last year for botting.
Thats higher than average PCU.
The problem is epidemic, and harsher measures may be required to stem the problem.
These are the challenges:
-1 Devising a series of bot-tests that few, if any, bots will be able to overcome.
-2 Designing the bot-tests so they are as fast/simple as possible for a human to solve, whilst remaining as difficult as possible for a bot to solve.
-3 Planning how/when/why these bot-tests occur in-game, so they pose as little inconvenience for non-botters as possible, whilst maintining as high inconvenience for botters as possible.
In the same year we had approx 1.2 Million accounts created. This means 2.6% of accounts were Bots. Ok, serious problem, but doesn’t meet the normal ratio to be defined as an epidemic. If you want to quote stats, put them against the right numbers, don’t pick an unrelated number for shock value.
Eve Offline for stats source. If you don’t believe those are accurate please provide references of your own instead.
No.
It means 2.6% of NEW CREATED accounts as a figure (which does not account for previously existing accounts), where IDENTIFIED as bots, and BANNED.
That does not mean there are not substantially more remaining bots ingame.
Now you are the one misrepresenting stats.
Are you seriously trying to argue that botting is not a systemic problem in EVE?
If so, then simply state “bots are not a problem” and leave the thread.
In the bit you didn’t quote I literally just said ‘It’s a serious problem’. I mean seriously, read, this is poor, even for you.
What I am not doing however is scare mongering in an attempt to push a solution despite a list of reasons why it would cause issues.
I don’t see a problem with a player leaving who wants to play like a bot and considers it unbearable to then be treated like a bot.
Bots are bad for the game, bot like players are bad for the game. Although the second group shouldn’t be banned or anything that extreme. Annoying them, to some degree, will either make them more engaged and less bot-like, or will make them quit playing. Both are good for the game.
Wait, so your idea is that this should not ever lead to actually banning any botting accounts? You want to introduce captchas just to stop a script until the person running it can restart it and any failure of a captcha should NOT be looked at by CCP as a possible bot account for a possible ban? So you want to “trip” bots, not ban them. Okay, yeah, this is a really bad idea.
Then you are reading things into my responses.
He has already basically said “I like playing like a bot, therefore we can’t go after bots.”
I think you just ran right into his guns there, old bean.
So your only point, was that its “not epidemic”?
Fine. Thats your opinion.
You however further tried to imply that the number of banned bots is representative of the total number of bots ingame. That you cant prove.
In clinical methodology, a 2.6% rate is classified as epidemic, albeit the clinical model also involves sudden/rapid rise of that condition, as a part of that definition.
Ill concede the point of calling it “epidemic” to you.
Happy?
Yeah, I thought he wanted to ban bots, and that this was part of a system that would include banning bots, but then he said that failing these captchas would have nothing to do with flagging the accounts to be reviewed by human GMs to see if they are bots and should be banned.
the idea that we should have tests in the game that only humans can solve and then NOT use that data in looking at which accounts are humans or bots is just mind boggling crazy. Even coming from Salvos, this is a new level of WTH?.
I never got that far, although its something to be considered, yes.
My proposal is hinged on preventing bots.
Ive stated that many times over.
My premise is that banning bots is a remedial action, not a preventsative one.
My entire premise has been to turn the battle against bots by focusing on prevention models, rather than after the fact action.
TLDR: “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure”.
I hope I have made myself clear.
If you have further questions, Ill try to answer them, but remember I dont have a complete flawless model ready for you. Im exploring the validity of my hypothesis as I go.