Seems T1 discussion boils down to lots of words not any good counterpoints but description how EVE currently is:
I take from discussion:
acknowledgment that T1 meta are by stats 90% times better than basic T1 (probably there are some exceptions that’s why 90%)
current basic T1 useful because:
availability (ignoring my other point by making meta buildable that would make availability better)
price (making meta also buildable would bring down price for some modules)
as base component for T2 (ignoring my point that basic T1 would stay just with compact stats and still be base component for T2)
regional loot flavor (ignoring that loot from region rats would still be cheaper than inventing and building)
Also not mentioned benefits:
Buildable basic T1 with compact stats would be useful for beginner industrialist since those modules are actually used for fitting and not only T2 base component.
Meta module building would use T1 salvage, that would make T1 salvage more valuable and more people would actually do it
less wrecks added benefit would be less objects for server to calculate
have sense of accomplishment when building everything yourself from basic materials and produced T1 thing does not suck as much as currently basic T1 does (by stats)
If i today started EVE and wanted to be industrialist, there is not much to build for market if I only have access to basic minerals and salvage and no skills for T2
Alright.I missed that. Okay now when I think about it there are more - warp core stabilizers, interdiction nullifiers.
But then, I mosly agree with @Done25 that price doesn’t really matter that much. I guess it depends on how poor the player is I guess? Because for example the t1 mining lasers. They are also cheaper than meta. But whether you pay 20k or 80k doesn’t really matter, does it?
I find your conclusion amusing and as invalid as it can get. Unfortunately i also can not discuss it with you any further as discussion would undermine my profit…
Just a very small hint: what is “the market”? There is no single market in EVE. You can buy and sell stuff on each and every one of the 50k+ stations that the EVE universe has.
Because the T1.5 (aka “meta”) drops are supposed to incentivize/guide/reward a player for using faction appropriate ships in a region. Rats in Amarr space will drop crystals and armor plates. Rats in Minmatar space will drop projectile ammo and shield reppers. Etc.
You are incentivized to use a ship of a faction the system belogs to via rat’s shield/armor resistance profiles. But then, securuity missions can spawn enemies of a different faction. Also majority of the drop is universal as it doesn’t belong to any faction, propulsion mods, engineering mods, ewar mods etc.
Not that I am supporting OP, no all his ideas are horrible and shows lack of understanding the game. I do agree that there is little to no reason to ever use t1 mods. I used to manufacture them for ganking purposes, but now that is just not worth it and it is better to just buy and transport metas. Outside of ganking, I can’t see any situation where I would choose t1 over meta. I man sure that Elara’s mining upgrade, but that is not really meta but faction. Other than that, since I am getting big benefit, even fi the price is higher (like compact medium shield) since I am not counting on losing that ship I do not mind paying that extra price.. If t2 is not an option of course due to the lack of skills or CPU/PGU limitations.
T1 modules can’t be the same as meta because then the players will complain the opposite - why ever use meta, or rather why these meta modules exists when they give no benefit over t1.
However, what would work and would be logical is for t1 to have the same main bonuses as compact modules, but not the lower fitting requirements. For example t1 gyrostabilizer would get 1.08x damage mod, but kept the 27CPU requirement. That would balance t1 and meta out and gave t1 more meaning again.
Not going to dispute my lack of game knowledge, would be nice to get detailed reasoned dismantling my argument
Can you make you case with “warp disruptor 1” and its 1,5 counterparts
My vision would be, worst stats but easiest to fit, slightly better stats (enduring, focused) slightly harder to fit. Then you have to make a choice, better fitting or better stats.
I would say your proposal would make situation slightly better but dont fix main problem that if t1.5 is available on market you always choose that since it always have better stats.
You buy a T1 Blueprint, research it to max, to then make copies. From which you can do T2 invention and build raw T1 modules for T2 production.
“Newbie” Industrialists in todays age should first go to some PI production, which guarantees income for very little investment. It is also pretty safe, as no one can attack your ground-based factories once they are set up. Just be careful when getting them out of the POCO.
This planetarys industry is scalable with chars (you could theoretically use all 3 of the chars of a single account), it scales well with risk (you can use much better planets in Lowsec, just be careful who is in local with you…), or even set up a cheap small POS in an empty wormhole system to get access to planets that very few people (or only you) harvest from.
And after that you can look for Blueprints that require PI materials that you can produce yourself. So you only need to buy some more parts from the market and can make another, even more profitable product.
And at this point you should have enough skillpoints and had enough time to figure out what T1 blueprints to purchase for making direct profits or which to use for T2 invention.
Yeah well touché. Can’t be done for all modules as I see now as for example the warp disruptors have 3 meta types and the compact has only the fitting requirements lowered.
But that also means that the t1 isn’t that much worse and this buff is not really needed.
hmm, that would illustrate your solution actually. looking at the Metropolis market currently, “Warp Disruptor 1 “avarage sales volume 3 a day, compact 30 a day, so noob industrialist cant sell his product.
take some other module then, “Light missile launcher 1”
If I would be completely new to EVE and only industry minded and my industry option at the beginning of career is only PI, i would be turned off and would look other games more engaging content than put down PI station, go collect several days later, end of content until weeks or months later I get enough skill points to do next level “Cloaking device 1”
Very true, many people don’t necessarily look at the stats on the mods and understand how sometimes you can’t always fit a ship without compact mods, sure, less of something is a trade-off but not always a bad thing.