Suggestion: Changes to Rat Loot and T1 Blueprints

I was unable to find a “Suggestions” group on the forums, so posting it here.

I have a suggestion regarding changes to rat loot and the building of T1 mods from blueprints.

So, as everyone knows, Meta mods from rat loot, and T2 are the only fittings that are really used on ships. There are hundreds of T1 blueprints in the game that thats sole use is for copying for invention, or for T2 production.

The T1 mods themselves are rarely used, because the common rat loot is both superior in stats and cheaper cost.

I’ve seen dozens of examples where i can buy a piece of rat loot for say 20k isk, in near unlimited quantities, and for me to build the T1 version from a blueprint, which is inferior in every way, costs 60k isk in minerals, let alone the job install costs etc.

That’s a recipe for a broken system, in a game where Industry and a player driven economy are the core of the game.

You guys have been working on module “teiracide” for what, 4 to 5 years now, and are still not done. This was a much needed change, however it does not solve the above mentioned problem.

So my suggestion is this: Give the plain T1 mods built from blueprints the stats of the current rat loot, “Compact”, “Enduring” etc into a single mod, and then balance the T2 versions so they they are better in every way, but require more Skills, cpu and grid to fit, as well as having a naturally greater cost.

Remove the common meta versions from the game entirely. (Faction and Deadspace excluded, though deadspace types need to be greatly reduced as well. Having mulitple types of A, B,C, X is way redundant.)

This would be HUGE boon to the industry of the game, as every single fitting (again Faction, Deadspace,Officer excluded), would be player produced. It also gives value to researching all blueprints to reduce your build costs, not just Ship hulls and Cap parts.

This would also be a major reduction in the items in the database, and make it much easier for newer players to understand. Having 7-12 different kinds of the same mod is just cluttered and confusing, especially when only 2-3 of the variations are useful, and the rest just get melted down for minerals.

Take a look at the variations tab on the “Drone Navigation Computer” in the game. That’s how nice and clean that tab should look for ALL mods in the game. (with the exception of having a couple more Faction or Deadspace types.)

Now, you can’t remove rat loot completely, without compensating for the minerals that they yeild from reprocessing, which is what happens to 70% of the loot anyway.

To compensate for this, i would suggest that normal rats start dropping a new set of Low, Medium, and High Quality metal scraps in place of the pre-built meta mods.

Low Quality contain Trit and Pyrite.
Medium Quality contain Trit, Pyrite, Mex, and Isogen.
High Quality contain some of all minerals.

Or, if it makes it easier for you to balance the numbers correctly:

Low is Trit, pyrite
Medium is Mex, Iso, Nox
High is Zydrine and Megacite.

I would suggest to stop working on the Tieracide, and do something like this instead. It would be an all around better solution and boon for the industry side of the game IMHO.

Maddax Mcloud

3 Likes

Well, another route that would be much easier to implement would be to just reduce the drop rates of generic rat loot so that the prices go up. I don’t know exactly how much you’d need to reduce drop rates, but if you could get prices closer to that of T2 mods, T1 stuff would see more use (and people would still use meta mods because of reduced fitting and skill requirements).

There is “Player Features and Ideas” forum over in Eve Technology and Research Center?

1 Like

Removing something is not the best solution to the problem, imo.

Shameless self-plug: my old suggestion

What you propose is called “Gun MIning” and existed in the game in the past. It was so devastating to normal mining that CCP had to deal with it at some point - halved module reprocessing output and removed drone NPC alloys were a result of that fix.

@Maddax_Mcloud

post this here … you can move yourself:
https://forums.eveonline.com/c/technology-research/player-features-ideas

JuuR

2 Likes

Go here: https://forums.eveonline.com/c/technology-research/player-features-ideas/74

1 Like

@Maddax_Mcloud

i have read to your post abd i think you dont have a idea what you taling about

take the 5MN microwarpdrive as aexample …

do you know that all of this T1, meta, T2 faction and deadspace versions have different stats? just look into the fittings stats sometimes you cant fi he T2 but the highes meta or maybe the 2nd highest meta … most of this modules are used and if it is only in some rare fittings for a special reason


so tak all that stuff out is not a smart idea … just deal with it and use what you need/can …
i have and use many of this different meta versions …

JuuR

Yes I am fully aware they have different stats, but there is no need for so many different kinds. I’m mainly concerned with the common meta mods more than the deadspace stuff.

Yes i am aware how the loot used to be, i been playing for 12 years.

The Metal scraps should drop at the same rate that current meta mods drop. Instead of dropping a “Sensor Booster” that only melts to Trit and Pyrite, have it be a Low Quality metal scrap.

Instead of dropping Large Guns or smart bombs that melt into a little of all minerals, drop a High Quality Metal Scrap instead. That’s what i am proposing, not an increase in mineral drops. Balance it so it comes out roughly the same as it is now, maybe a bit less to encourage normal mining.

1 Like

why you think that? i use them a lot … many different because of the different stats … sometimes you get near the same for a few cpu less and it just fits … thats cool … you play since 12 years and you never did that? you just throw stuff together and you nerver had problems with CPU or PG? funny … most had …

JuuR

@Maddax_Mcloud

https://forums.eveonline.com/c/technology-research/player-features-ideas

move your post to this place :wink:

JuuR

1 Like

I can’t seem to figure out how to move the post, i don’t use the forums often, perhaps a dev can move it, or give me some detailed instructions. Thanks.

1 Like

really? such huge ideas but it will all be lost because you wrote it in the wrong section?

go edit the title and choose the new subforum …

JuuR

Somebody from ISD like @ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode can probably move the thread to the correct sub-forum.

Also you can flag your opening post in this thread and request it to be moved - click the 3 dots located on left side of the reply button and click the little Flag icon, then select the ‘Something Else’ option and write the reason in the box.

Because no one else brought it up before me, your thread belongs to https://forums.eveonline.com/c/technology-research/player-features-ideas.

I’m late to the party. :frowning:

2 Likes

Wait, what? That’s a thing?

Post moved, thanks for the info.

1 Like

I used to share this viewpoint that “the lowest grade good should be extremely cheap”, but I’ve since come to learn EVE better and have come to learn there are, in fact, good reasons for why this is not nor necessarily should be the case. It’s worth noting that T1M0s serve two purposes:

  • To serve as input materials to T2 modules. In this regard their manufacturing costs are appropriate, as are their costs in relation to the total cost of the T2 component and the other input components. The fact that these precursor inputs are actually usable before upgrading is a bonus. T1M0s sold aren’t sold for utilization so much as consumption in manufacturing.
  • To serve as guaranteed-to-exist items in relation to your ability to procure them if metas are not available. You can appreciate scarcity of this kind the further away you live from tradehubs and the less able you are to resupply misc. items, esp those with low ISK/m3 ratios. In the real world, sometimes the worst quality goods are also more expensive than higher quality goods, so this imbalance is not necessarily a bad thing.

The market is, in fact, supposed to be flooded with Metas because their drop rates are supposed to be very high. The prices are appropriate because insanely high abundance translates to insanely low costs; Altering T1M0 industry requirements mechanics isn’t going to make Metas more valuable all of a sudden simply because metas aren’t cheap in relation to T1M0, they are cheap in relation to their insane abundance. There are more metas sold at Jita than there are asteroids in all of New Eden. Generally speaking, only Compacts, some Endurings, and M4s are in sufficient enough demand that prices are competitive.

I don’t think T1M0s are broken in relation to point #1 or need too much tweaking in relation to point #2. It is not necessarily a bad thing that, excluding civilian grade modules, the worst modules in the game are not only the worst in performance but also more expensive since you literally have to go out of your way to procure them (harvest/reproc/manufacture) to a greater extent than you would killing rats for drops as part of regular gameplay (or buying off market from someone who already has.)

So each of the T1 meta mods would be inferior to the all-encompassing T1M0 mod in that it would have only one of the T1M0s strength? Not following here. Please clarify. If that is what you are proposing, I am 100000000% against this on numerous fronts. I’m not going to enumerate the many reasons why this would be a horrible idea until you clarify what you meant.

T2 Modules were never intended to be better in every way. To the contrary, they were deliberately designed to offer better performance at the intentionally high expense of being very difficult to fit in terms of PG/CPU/Cap and having a 2x burnout penalty on overload. This is by design. Faction/Deadspace modules are those which are superior and do not sacrifice fittability (or are actually easier to fit) than T1M0/Metas/T2s. Do not try to repurpose T2 to become what Faction/Deaspace already exist to be, especially since Faction modules are already guaranteed to be accessible via LP store.

T2 modules are already significantly more expensive than T1s in general save for M4s and some Compacts/Endurings, which are more expensive for obvious and 100% sensible reasons (skill requirements, fittability, and ability to overload without 2x burnout penalty), so this does not need changing either.

If you mean replace all two item modules (and ammo) such that they have the exact same properties but just a different name, then yes this should have been done ages ago. It would be somewhat challenging to come up with a new name system since it would have to be lore-consistent, but perfectly doable even if it means coming up with made up names like is already the case with many items.

Why should T1 metas be produced? That is completely unnecessary when they drop left and right and the economy is extremely healthy with an abundance of cheap metas. There is no need to change this mechanic for no reason. It is healthy and interesting for certain items in an RPG to only come from NPC drops. Given that these are in insane abundance and aren’t mandatory or in some cases weren’t of terribly high value to begin with, players are likely to find what they want on their own/at market and aren’t missing out on much if they don’t because there is no shortage of alternatives, some of which are guaranteed to exist (T1M0s, T2s, and Faction). Do not underestimate the capabilities of a well-designed T1M0 fit if you had to resort to using one.

First of all, this already exists. Some drones drop alloys. that provide a mix of minerals for each alloy. (Personally I haven’t seen this happen in a looooooong time so either they stopped dropping alloys or I just haven’t PVE’d those drones lately, but you can still see the market entries for them.)

Second of all: This would severely break the game in ways I don’t think you fully understand or appreciate. Scrap metal is already a highly sought after commodity because it has an insanely high yield ratio in relation to its volume. It is frequently exported from Jita in bulk as a way to procure vast amounts of trit in a single transport run. This is done to compensate for insufficient (or a complete and total lack of) harvest operations, primarily for those living in LS/NS where it can be more challenging to harvest for some groups, and in HS regions particularly far from tradehubs. This is already a huge deal given the very small quantities in which the two forms of scrapmetal that already exist are seeded and sold by players. Replacing meta drops with reproccable goods is going to severely diminish the value of actual mining to an irreparable extent, which is already grossly undervalued even in very high-end setups, and inflate the prices of basic ores further, which is particularly problematic in light of CCP’s resource redistribution efforts - they haven’t even released the dynamic redistribution phase yet, so it is very dangerous and unwise to propose any such changes until a few months after the rollout.

Not only that, but a lot of players - especially newbies liking the ability to try new things without having to buy everything from market just to sample, and those living far from tradehubs - actually like getting functional drops, stuff they can use and benefit from. The first point is particularly important: the meta modules, in addition to being functional and exciting, serve an important academic purpose in that they give newbies something to play with for their efforts: kill rat, get new module never seen before, learn about the module, learn more about the game. Eliminate this and you eliminate one of the most important instructional tools from the game.

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