Everything you think you know about the Amarr religions is probably wrong

There is much posted on Gal-net about the Amarr religions, and the vast majority of it is wrong.

Let us start with the erroneous idea about “original sin”, which some critics of Amarr religion believe is a thing, due to the mentions in Scripture where it is described that alone of all the bloodlines in New Eden, the True Amarr did not turn away from God.

The critics would say that the True Amarr are “guaranteed” entry to Paradise, while all other bloodlines are not, due to the other bloodlines having the “stain of original sin” on them.

This is a false assumption.

While it is true that the True Amarr did not turn away from God, this does not guarantee entry to Paradise. Indeed, because the True Amarr did not turn away from God in ancient times, it is actually harder for them to enter Paradise, because they are held to a higher standard.

For a non-Amarr, such as an Udorian, or Ni-Kunni, or Khanid, then, they may enter Paradise by devoutly following the teachings of Scripture.

But for a True Amarr, merely following Scripture is not enough.

Consider the words of the Prophet Anoyia, wherein it is Written:
“Chosen, you are the first before God.
You are the True and the Faithful.
But in such a state must you hold yourselves high above all.
And constantly prove yourself worthy of Gods Love.”

Therefore, we see that it is not enough to simply follow Scripture, that entry to Paradise for a True Amarr requires proving oneself worthy. Which means a life of quiet righteousness that would be enough for an Udorian, is not enough for a True Amarr. The True Amarr cannot simply follow Scripture, they must advance it in some way. Through building churches and cathedrals, educating others, missionary work, charitable works, and so on and so forth.

Therefore we can dismiss the idea of “original sin”, as the construct of close-minded critics who have not properly interpreted the Scriptures.

Let us then move on to the ideas of individual salvation. Now, there is considerable difference in the Amarr religions on this topic, this is true.

Some critics would claim that individuals, particularly those of non-True Amarr ancestry, cannot achieve salvation, though their descendants may be eligible. They may cite the example of the 9th Generation Minmatar slaves, or the passages of Scripture that refer to “cultivation of the spirit of Man”. This is not quite true.

Any individual may achieve Salvation, though the degree to which the different Amarr religions accept this varies considerably.

In Amarr Orthodoxy, if we examine the words of the Amarr Askura, where it is Written:
“For whosoever shall lay his life down for his Lord
He shall be taken into the arms of God
And forever consecrated will he be”

Then we can see that even in Amarr Orthodoxy, the strictest of the Amarr religions when it comes to individual salvation, then it is possible, through such acts as being killed in action in a Crusade.

In contrast, the Sani Sabik, the most liberal of the Amarr religions, decrees that all are equally able to become one of the Chosen, and achieve salvation.

Indeed, the Question of who is, and who is not, a Chosen, is one that critics sometimes stumble over.

The conventional interpretation, is that “The Chosen” and “True Amarr” are one and the same, and that non-Amarr, such as Udorians, can never be members of “The Chosen”. Perversely, this is the same argument as made by the Purity of the Throne movement. And it also asserts that Her Majesty Catiz 1, is not one of “The Chosen”, because of her Udorian ancestry.

But, if we were to examine that interpretation, then it becomes clear that were it true, it would mean that The Reclaiming does not work. To say that HM Catiz 1 is ineligible to be Empress, is to assert that Reclaiming does not work, is not possible, because only True Amarr can be Chosen.

Which is False.

While the True Amarr are “The Chosen” bloodline, the ranks of God’s Chosen, are not solely filled by True Amarr. Again, Amarr Orthodoxy is the strictest on who can become Chosen, but given the status of Empress Catiz 1, then we can clearly see that True Amarr ancestry is not the barrier that some critics claim it is. On the opposite side of the spectrum, Sani Sabik asserts that any and all persons may become a Chosen, by acting Righteously.

Thus, we can see that several of the most common assertions made about the Amarr religions are faulty, and easily countered by a proper interpretation of what The Scriptures actually say.

It is Written.


Interesting thoughts.

I’ve always viewed sin to be in the nature of non True Amarrians, while merely an afflicition among the Chosen. The affliction looses its grip when proving yourself worthy, much in the same way you point out.

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Great, let’s see it. What the Scriptures actually say. All of it, because after all, taking passages out of context can significantly alter their meaning.

Let me know when you have the complete work posted.


Are they? Are they really? By God it might be so, but among His creations it has seemed that ancestry and influence have proven to be more important than faith and duty to God.

No, the higher standard is held for those who are expected to fail. Those who are punished for every sin they have ever and will ever commit (and for ones they have not), whose every action and word is checked and double-checked for any sign of fault, who are condemned as having been ‘released too soon’ if they dare have the audacity to point out the sins in those who claim superiority.

The original, first apostasy is a thing. Turning away from God is the first and most egregious sin. It is the action that necessitates the existence of the Reclaiming. And it affects everyone that was not born True Amarr. Sure, its existence says nothing about who is permitted entry – except that those who turned away and haven’t returned are forsaken. Entry is determined by one’s faith and deeds, no matter who you are; in that you’re right. But while True Amarr start with the universe promised to their name, the apostate races have to work our way up from nothing.

Being Reclaimed is not the same thing as being Chosen. Being Chosen means being first of all of God’s creations. It does not mean simply being among the ranks of God’s kingdom.

I’m a Reclaimed servant of God. My name is in the Book of Records. But I am not Chosen, and never will be unless God Himself came down to declare it so.

Except that she is True Amarr. The question is more, how much mixing with Udorian ancestry does it take before someone stops being True Amarr and starts being Udorian? To Purists, the smallest amount is enough. If I were to have a child by a pureblooded True Amarr, the Purists would call that child, and all of their descendants until the end of time, Sebiestor.


So would I. I’d also call it Amarr. You don’t get out of this messed-up extended family that easily, my friend. :wink:

(I rather think you can tell the difference between the implied value judgments of the respective parties, however.)


Or better yet, if reading them in context actually does change their overall interpretation, implementation, and relevance.


So, any time I see one of Dr. Valate’s writings where she’s being at least mostly serious instead of funny, I start looking for the poison pill. Usually she’s got a lot of good or at least really interesting stuff to say, but, because of who she is and what she and her Sabik cult actually represent, there’s usually going to be a gap someplace.

I’ll leave the discussion of Amarrian theology to those with a deeper investment in it than I have, but, there’s something here worth addressing from an outsider’s perspective. 'Cause I think the “pill” this time is something a little scary.

So-- partly, this is maybe true, but it’s being set up to be terribly misunderstood. Certainly some Amarr (to whom, broadly, the word “liberal” doesn’t mean good things, and that’s as true in Tash-Murkon as in Derelik) would take it as a truth.

For the rest of us, though, it’s a trap.

It sounds kind of nice, doesn’t it? The Amarr generally have a reputation for being very rigid and dogmatic about, well, nearly everything. I mean, the Reclaiming as described in the “Pax Amarria” does call for a dialog, but that’s at the margins, in other people’s nations. I’m a guest of the Society, a servant to Directrix Daphiti, and a target for conversion. Though a heathen, I’m allowed to live more or less freely among believers, largely for the sake of persuading me to join the Rite-- an example of the Pax’s vision in practice.

But, if I tried to respond in kind and spread my faith inside the Society, there might be a little trouble. And that’s the Empire at maybe its most open-hearted.

The notion of a more “liberal” version of the Amarr therefore might appeal a little to a lot of us, and that’s probably why Dr. Valate would say such a thing, but, there are problems with this claim Dr. Valate is making.

The claim that Sabik cults decree that “all are equally able to become Chosen” is highly variable from cult to cult; this might be true of the Blood Raiders and the COTCS, and even Naupliusism, but (1) most such cults actually form from, and around, petty Amarrian blue-bloods who want their “Chosen-ness” as True Amarr recognized more than Amarrian society is prepared to allow, leading to doctrines that Savants are born, not made; and (2) those who do allow for ascent-- well, Mr. Nauplius’s method of cleansing-via-murder isn’t actually unusual.

In other words,

… typically, by proving they have the strength to enforce their will on this universe by breaking a basic taboo of civilization: murdering someone, or several someones.

Sani Sabik cults are “liberal” in the sense that they encourage the strong to do as they will. To the degree that it’s a tolerant faith, what it tolerates is whatever powerful people decide they want to do. It’s tolerant of individual whim, as long as it’s backed by enough power to become engraved into some corner of reality. Want to treat people kindly and make sure they’re protected? Fine, if you have the power to make it a reality. Want to skin them all slowly and use their blood to make a pudding? That’s fine, too.

Kaztropol, Queen Synthia’s demesne, where Dr. Valate makes her home, is no exception.

Sure, it’s maybe a way of being more “liberal” than the Amarr generally, and even the Khanid Kingdom, but maybe not in a way Mens Reppola and the Ishukone corporate board would be enthusiastic about.


Meh, whatever. It’s all still putting lipstick on a very ugly pig and trying to force the rest of us to proclaim it beautiful.

When it’s all said and done the slavers have invented a religion and culture that sets them up at the apex with the rest of us beneath them and serving them.

I’ll pass, thanks. Better to rule in hell than serve in the slavers’ heaven.


I read on the galnet in a few places that the Amarr were in fact peaceful, caring, loving people who want nothing more than whats best for the Matari people…

Yep, bull****.


It depends on what one regards as the best for others. If I woke up in the morning and decided that, for example, I felt the lack of chocolate in your life was criminal and made it my mission to force you to eat as much chocolate as I possibly may…

From one point of view I’m simply charitably devoting my time to ensuring your life is improved by the consumption of chocolate.

From your point of view you now have a crazy woman trying to force feed you chocolate.

For those who truly believe, converting the Matari people is what’s best for them and they’ve obviously been taught that slavery is the best most caring way to do so.

People develop quite skewed perceptions. Unfortunately when your life is defined by these perceptions, relinquishing them is difficult.


I wish I was Amarrian so I could go around dressed in a bulky dropsuit with a big book in tow, pointing at people and calling them heretics.


Submit yourself to the reclaiming…


Hally - where were redheads determined to pamper me with chocolate when I was a younger man?

I feel like this experience would have changed my path in life and made me less likely to participate in the Militia wars.


That would be disgraceful, Mr. Tuulinen. It is a duty of every citizen to defend the Homeland.

Even if I weren’t marine and was just a civilian before my capsuleer career, I would sitll join the war. Because first and foremost I am Caldari. And as all Caldari I grab weapons to protect the State when we are attacked. My profession and experience is not important. It is important that I am Caldari.

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You could always have asked.

That way you could have had the chocolate and the wars.


I’m curious. You have said in the past that the Caldari involvement in the militia warfare is because the Federation attacked the State, and continue to attack the State. Now you say that all Caldari ‘grab weapons to protect the State when [it is] attacked’.

How do you explain that not all Caldari are fighting in the CEWPA war, or that not all Caldari even have weapons?


I probably would start by making a separate discussion thread if I was so interested.

I was sadly otherwise occupied. And blonde. Times change, however.


Blood for the blood God??!!!

You’d think if he’s a blood god, he has enough blood. But then I never have enough chocolate so who am I to judge?