This needs to be its own topic, not in the Off-Topic thread.
I’m going to take some time to formulate my views on the matter. In the mean time, I would encourage Samira and Mel to bring their comments here.
Heretics to the Amarr, sure. I’ve traveled a bit and there are plenty of those that believe in the same God that the Amarr do, and hold many of the same tenets (mostly in the Federation), but hold no loyalty to the Empress or Empire. The beauty of it all is that once someone stops caring what the Amarrian Theology Council says, they can open their eyes to the truth.
And, by extension, to Constantin’s version of things, as he claims his authority stems from the TC and the Throne.
Also: just because a deity is the singular creator of the universe, that doesn’t make them the same god as the Amarr god. Especially not when the two central ones are ‘obey the hierarchy in the scriptures’ and ‘convert all you can, kill the rest’.
If they aren’t loyal to the Empire then they aren’t loyal to God. We are charged with building God’s empire in this world. We are charged with bringing the apostate peoples back into the faith, and with them building a whole, unified Amarr. Rejecting this duty is rejecting His commands.
Yes, the Empire isn’t perfect. Yes, there is corruption in its highest offices and teachings. But that does not mean we abandon our duty. We must Reclaim the Empire, so that it is the bastion of the faith that it is supposed to be. Our ultimate loyalty, even those who live in other lands, is and will always be to God and His empire.
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Source?
Literally the Imperial Rite. That’s as well and commonly known as stars fusing hydrogen together.
As an Imperial citizen, he is sworn to serve the emperor of Amarr.
As a member of House Baracca, he is sworn to the House of Ardishapur, who are in turn sworn to the Imperial Throne.
As a priest of the faith, his ultimate superior authority is the Imperial Throne, as the Empress is the First Apostle of the True Faith and Sovereign Defender of the Imperial Rite, the leader of the faith.
As a priest of the faith, he is a teacher and enforcer of the laws of the faith as they are written down in Scripture, which is maintained and arbitrated by the Theology Council. As far as I know the Archbishop is not a member of that body, but his duties and powers are defined in Scripture.
Should he reject this hierarchy, his title would likely be stripped. So, even if he has not directly claimed these things, by virtue of his position they are true.
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Literally Constantin:
Let’s play along at home!
“Archibishop of the Hinterlands”—Archbishop means he’s part of the hierarchy, unless he’s part of some other hierarchy. Which he claims not to be!
“Constantin was […] raised with one thing in mind… to uphold the faith.”—You know, that thing that says bring everyone to god… or give them fire and the sword.
“Though Constantin was a well known bishop on Amarr Prime…”—Kinda doubt he’s the sort of heretic who wouldn’t be making sure people know their first loyalty is to god and his Empire…
“… he has been given a mandate to spread the Word outside of the Empire.”—Given. As in, by someone higher up.
“A true wild card for the Amarr Empire”—oh, look, he’s preaching for the Empire.
So, yeah, that’s my source: him. Himself.
Mel, I am begging you to please stop. This isn’t a good look for you, asking for a source of absolutely common knowledge while defending the Amarr.
It’s fine that you call them friends. It’s admirable that you do, even. They don’t need you to defend them, though.
I remember the woman that was fun, spontaneous and jovial. I remember you teaching (or trying to) teach me how to walk in heels. This bitter, angry, combative attitude is not becoming.
Please stop.
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This post really isn’t necessary. You asked her to talk about Amarrian faithful when you opened this thread, and are now asking her… not to?
She can say what she likes.
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I agree. She can say what she likes. I just hope it can be approached in a calm fashion.
What is the purpose of this thread, Sera? You make it sound like you want to continue the conversation from Off-Topic, but all you’ve done so far is bash anyone who’s presented a position contrary to yours. Discussion is fine; that’s what this forum is for. But this?
This makes the thread personal. It has nothing to do with the topic; I am neither Amarrian nor Faithful, and ■■■■, I’m not even in the Republic right now. (Well, that’s also a debate, I guess.) And I’ve not been combative. I’ve defended myself against name-calling, mudslinging, threats, and trolling. So. Defensive? Sure. Combative? No.
If you really want to debate me on the Amarr faith, then present a statement that I haven’t already given my position on. If you’re here to bash me, Constantin, Amarr, or whoever, then be upfront about it and rename the thread.
Until you and your clique quit being shadowy about your intentions, I’m not going to waste time engaging you.
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I’m not here to bash anyone. But when you asked for a “Source” on a piece of information well known to everyone, then it started turning combative.
As far as my clique goes? I’m not aware I have one.
Or you could just answer the question, as the rest of us did.
It didn’t actually occur to me that it was a serious question.
So, I am leaving these forums. They accomplish nothing.
That might be for the best at this moment.
I wonder have any of you ever considered the presence of the other kind of “Amarrian Faithful” in the Republic?
The ones who decided that the Slaver God is not their God, and turned to his Enemy to have vengeance and set the world “free”, as they see fit?
Asking for a friend.
Also, may have relevance to Arrests of Mikramurka Defense Officials .
There may be far, far more Sani Sabik collaborators or sympathisers among the Tribes than anything the hardcore trad types or the timid Ammatar can ever admit to exist.
Edit: On the other hand, it’s irrelevant anyway, so, yup, the forums. They accomplish nothing.
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I have thought hard about how to explain my position. I feel that my writing ability is not up to the task, but I will try.
The Imperial Rite is the main version of the Amarrian Faith practiced in the Empire. It demands obedience to God, and the Sacred Throne, for the Empress is God’s direct representative. From her, authority flows to the Heirs and Holders. The goal is to Reclaim the entire cluster so that all peoples and planets will be under the rule of the Empress, by any means possible. This is generally what people mean when they talk about the Amarrian faith.
For someone to come into the Republic, preaching the Amarrian faith, Imperial Rite, or any mainstream derivatives (which also have the same demands), would be suborning sedition against the Tribes. A Tribal Matari cannot follow the Imperial Rite, which demands loyalty to the Empress and the Amarr Empire and remain loyal to the Tribes. It is the goal of the Amarr Empire to destroy the Tribes, to subsume them into the Empire as just another people.
I am just one woman and cannot speak for my whole Tribe. However, I will give my perspective on how we remain faithful to God, but loyal to the Tribes.
We view the Amarr Empire as having corrupted God’s Will. Given the way the Amarr rewrite their history when needed, it’s impossible to say when. It was almost certainly before they encountered the Matari. Thus, while we remain committed to worshiping the same God the Amarr do, we do not recognize the authority of the Sacred Throne, or any Imperial institutions.
It was the appearance of Saint Arzad to Maak, telling him, “The fire in our hearts burns for salvation, redemption, and grace. May the Word of God grant you the courage to save yourself and your people.”
The Tribal rebellion has a Holy thing, to break the Matari away from a corrupt, venal Empire that abused, tortured, raped, murdered, and oppressed us. There was no Salvation to be found in the Empire. There is no Salvation to be found in the Empire.
There are those in the Republic that are stuck on the belief that the Amarr indoctrinated into them. Some Matari attempt to break them of this in the usual manner, explaining that it’s all lies. Sometimes this works. However, often it does not. The Starkmanir Church has worked out programs of education, going from a belief in the Imperial Rite, or Salvation Church, through the flaws in the Empire, to an understanding of God’s Will that enables them to be a free Matari and a part of the Tribes. It is a long process, but it is doable.
To this end, I would put forth to the Sanmatar that from this day forward, all clergy of the Imperial Rite (and other mainstream rites of the Amarr Empire) be banned from Minmatar space. Their lies have no place among the Tribes. The Amarr have made no secret of that fact that since they cannot ‘reclaim’ us with force, they will try a different route. We must deny them that route.
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Of course a member of the faith’s loyalty must be first and always be to God and His Empire. And of course it is our duty as members of the faith to bring others into the faith. Is this surprising? It is expected of any follower of the faith. Even those who reside in other nations are expected to hold God and Amarr as their first loyalty, and to work to bring the faithless into the faith. That is the Destiny of Faith. That is our duty to God!
There is corruption in the Empire, yes. Absolutely. And its tendrils reach deep, absolutely. It is sick and twisted and evil, and it has lead to abuse and torture and rape and murder and oppression, yes. But that only means we have a responsibility to Reclaim it as well! To purge the Empire of its sins, to cultivate its spirit, until it is holy and pure again. By abandoning that duty you are abandoning your responsibilities to God. It is cowardice. If Amarr errs, then Amarr must be righted. Amarr is God’s empire in this world. His kingdom. The circle will not be complete again until all of creation is whole again, one Amarr.
The Minmatar tribes, an apostate people that rejected God, twice, are not who you owe your loyalty to. Even if it’s possibly a nicer place to live for you, even if the people are good, wonderful people, that does not give you cause to treat them higher than God’s Empire. While living there you may obey their laws, you may respect their customs, you may find friends and family, but that doesn’t change that by virtue of being outside the Empire you are a Reclaimer. You are a missionary. That is the duty of all faithful.
You very clearly, by your own words, do not.
If there’s no Salvation to be found in the Empire, then who brought you into the faith?
Rebellion against God is the Greatest Sin and can in no way be called holy. How dare you, really? Apostasy isn’t something to be celebrated!
If there is sin in the Empire, then that sin must be cut out of the Empire. Instead you ran and hid. And those who run from the Light shall be abandoned and forsaken by God.
And yet you call yourself a member of the faith.
Apostate.
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Samira please explain to me why the majority of the cluster would want to give up our individuality, culture, history, customs and spirituality (or what makes us unique) so that we can serve in a feudalistic, static hierarchical society for multiple generations only to (maybe) emerge as second class vassals forever meant to serve the so-called “true Amarr”?
No, thanks.
I’ll take Seraphea’s “apostate” religion as it’s not antithetical to the very survival of the Matari people.
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