Off-Topic Thread vol. 2

Samira… I didn’t say that “‘all’ faithful outside the Empire fall under his authority.” I literally did not say that. The “pretty much” is there because I know his operations do include space beyond the Republic, but I can’t remember exactly how much, because I am not an expert on the subject at all.

Don’t twist my words just to satisfy a point, please.

By choice, Samira.

The difference here is choice.

Sera’s implication in the other thread was that Constantin’s presence is a sign of yet another nonconsensual Reclaiming, as if he’s the first step toward a Day of Darkness redux. That’s simply not true. Constantin is there because there was a need for an archdiocese for faithful who were already in the Republic before he got there. Since then, many more Matari have adopted the faith, yes. But not because they were born into it and required to practice it; not because they were never made aware of other options; not because they were kidnapped and forced into a Reclaiming. They adopted it because they saw something in the faith that they liked.

As I said before, I personally believe that that’s beyond gross. But there’s probably something comforting about the idea of one creator god that makes good things happen for you if you just worship him enough. I dunno.

And as I also said before, everyone should have the ability to choose, and there’s nothing wrong with Matari openly choosing to join the faith while aware of their options and what their conversion means (ie: being Reclaimed). In fact, I could even consider them really ■■■■■■■ brave for adopting the faith despite threats and violence from their own Matari kin.

Yes, it is. What’s wrong with that? Everyone has needs, and those needs have to be cared for in some way. Where would you have our siblings who choose the faith go otherwise? Back to Amarr?

Then that’s their problem. And it’s not as if they don’t make it known. They’re the shitheads who think it’s okay to lay hands on kin just because of what they believe in.

I know Constantin. I’ve been to the temple and I’ve met much of the staff and clergy there. I’ve chatted with parishioners. There’s nothing nefarious afoot. In fact, I would go so far as to say that their team does more to help Matari (albeit mostly faithful Matari) than many of the Matari capsuleers who gallivant about on this forum.

Now, for everyone who’s rubbing their hands at the chance to attack me over supporting the faith: I am only talking about Constantin’s archdiocese, because I’ve personally had contact with it. Any other Amarr working in Republic space, I’m not vouching for.


I’m not twisting them. That is just how it came across to me. If my interpretation of what you were saying was inaccurate, then I apologize.

I already said, I very much support what he is doing. I am not against it. I’m an Amarrian faithful, afterall. I lived in the Republic once. We held services in the basement of a sandwich shop.

But it’s a lie to say he is “not converting or Reclaiming people.” That’s what I was calling out, because converting and Reclaiming people is exactly what he’s doing. What he’s not doing is enslaving people, or coercing them into the faith. To take a page from your own book: you were using the wrong words.

And you’ll never convince those who hate Amarr that he’s doing something better. Whether by force or peace, any spreading of Amarrian influence is considered too much for some. My priest in Kaihu was stabbed by assholes from a local gang. He hadn’t done anything bad to anyone. Same thing with Abel Jarek. It’s not about how it’s done to a lot of people. That it’s done at all is enough.

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It might be prudent to explain my day job at some point when I’m not actively swamped in it. Thank you for the appreciation expressed by all those who expressed it, though. It gets me through these meetings!


I accept your apology. Thank you.

Fine, maybe I did use the wrong words. What I was arguing against is the intention, and that remains the same. The original assertion was that his presence in the Republic was an indication of malicious work by the Empire. That is false.

I was one of these people until very recently. Then I took the opportunity to talk to people instead of projecting my fears and insecurities onto them. I’d like to see more of my kin doing that, instead of shouting down open overtures out of hand.


Don’t worry, they’ll streamline it to ‘you know what I meant’ soon.

What the actual screaming fekk? ‘They’ is gender-neutral, and specifically for people. You don’t look at a stack of coins and say ‘they’. It’s ‘those’. Animals might be ‘they’, but we have a tendency to project humanizing perceptions onto them.

Seriously, what the hell are you smoking that ‘they’ is ‘dehumanizing’? Are you just looking for reasons to be outraged? If it’s not dehumanizing to say ‘they’ about a man, it’s not dehumanizing to say ‘they’ about a woman. It is literally treating them exactly the same way.

Yeah. Yeah, you literally did.

So you’re ok with people being coerced and deceived into swearing allegiance to the Amarr Empire while living in the Republic? Because that is what the Amarr faith is. Those who believe in the Amarr god but do not believe their first loyalty in this universe is to him, and their second to his mouthpiece, the Emperor/Empress, are heretics.

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Minmatar aren’t obliged to help the Amarr, or their proxy drones, to spread the Amarrian faith. Not after what it has done to them and their ancestors. I’m fine with practitioners of the faith as long as they keep it to themselves. But actively converting people in the Republic? Do so at your own risk.

I don’t know about your priest, and unfortunate that he got stabbed, but Abel Jarek certainly was asking for trouble. I can’t imagine Amarr taking kindly to say, if my mom went to Dam-Torsad to teach them about ancestor worship and rituals. Would it excuse murder? No. Of course not. But there are people in the world that hold various things sacrosanct, such as places our ancestors worshipped or lived in - and introducing its antithesis there is not a good idea.

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Our faith demands more than that.

It is known. The dynamic is kind of like watching the unstoppable force approaching the immovable object. Both are likely to get hurt, yet neither should be as stupid as inanimate objects or abstract concepts.

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I’m tired of repeating myself, so:

(And by the way: Samira agreed and apologized.)

I mean, the issue isn’t the ‘pretty much everywhere else that isn’t Amarr’. It’s the ‘all the faithful in the Republic’. But I’m going to assume that your saying “a leadership figure” means you were saying he was just one of many, as that was the word I missed on my first read through.

That’s nice. It doesn’t change anything. I don’t care how someone identifies or what fiddly bits they’ve got. I’m going to treat them as a person. And ‘they/them’ is a perfectly legitimate gender-nonspecific pronoun to use for people. I’m not being dehumanizing if I say someone is a ‘layperson’ to a field. I’m not being dehumanizing if I call someone a ‘thespian’ rather than ‘actor’ or ‘actress’. Gender-nonspecific terms are perfectly applicable regardless of someone’s gender.

Trying to dictate how someone speaks and what words they can use? That’s kinda manipulative, though. Especially when it’s pretty clear nobody was trying to disrespect you, they (OMG THERE IT IS AGAIN! TEH HORROR, THE HORROR!!!) were just being non-specific.

So? I know this is gonna come as a shock, but I’m not Samira, and Samira apologizing doesn’t in any way prohibit me from calling you out on the fact that that thing you claim you didn’t say? You said it.

So you are totally fine with Matari swearing to betray the Tribes when ordered to by a hostile Empire. Good to know.

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The CEP did! Also, coincidentally, not you. I have attached a handy visual aid to remind you and others, in case they forgot. I hope this helps! Here’s my source.


Are you hallucinating? It says not something he did claim. It’s just your brainfart. If you says CEP did, point EXACTLY where they said it. Show. The. Damn. Quote.
Show the word! WHERE is it, because I don’t see in your so-called “source” where CEP calls them ENEMIES.

Don’t bother me with your brainfarts.

Just to clarify: are you implying terrorists aren’t enemies of the State?


Stupid question. Galletean terrorists and Minmatar terrorists (like their infamous freedom fighters) are clearly enemies of the State. Even if they’re not professional fighters, they are still combatants for opposing sides.

NEWS: Breaking News: Tibus Heth Denounced by CEP, to be Ousted as KK CEO

The Chief Executive Panel has released a statement calling Tibus Heth “the leader of a terrorist insurgency against the Caldari State” and has removed him from the role of State Executor.

… Exercising their powers under corporate law, the board has declared Tibus Heth an outlaw in Kaalakiota territories and vacated the position of CEO.

CEP, KK Call for Heth’s Arrest

Kaalakiota Corporation has been granted a State-wide corporate warrant by the Caldari Business Tribunal for Tibus Heth’s arrest on charges of malfeasance, misappropriation and embezzlement. The Chief Executive Panel has similarly announced that Heth is wanted under Caldari basic law for the murder of Admiral Visera Yanala, terrorism, and political extremism stemming from his takeover of the Caldari Constructions Warehouse in Haatomo.

Heth is wanted by the Kaalakiota Corporation for the theft of vessels he used to conduct his takeover of the Caldari Constructions station in Haatomo, as well as embezzlement of corporate resources used to fund the Caldari Providence Directorate over the course of several years.

The Chief Executive Panel has announced that it prefers Heth to be returned alive for a proper trial before the Caldari Business Tribunal, but has acknowledged that “capturing the renegade alive may not be possible.”

NEWS: Breaking News: Provists Seize Haatamo Station; Tibus Heth Leading

A force of Provists and Templis Dragonaurs have seized control of the Caldari Constructions Warehouse around Haatamo VII – Moon 3. It has been confirmed that Tibus Heth is leading the force.

NEWS: Caldari Navy Storms Haatomo Station; Location of Heth Unknown

The Caldari Navy and security forces belonging to the megacorporations blew open the sealed off sections of the Caldari Constructions station around Haatomo VII’s third moon with explosive charges, stormed the entrenched Caldari Providence Directorate and Templis Dragonaurs forces, and brought an end to the eight day siege that has gripped New Eden.

The Navy, which had held off on attacking the station due to the presence of Caldari Constructions workers who were trapped in the sealed areas, made the decision to storm the building after receiving “actionable intelligence that indicated the lives of the hostages and many others were in greater danger by failing to act.” The Navy has refused to release what this intelligence was, citing a continued threat to the State by terrorist cells.

CEP Dissolves State Executor Position; Provists

The CEP has also reaffirmed the status of the Templis Dragonaurs as terrorists. Though they were never officially removed from the State’s list of terrorist organizations, they maintained a close affiliation with the Provists and were increasingly being used in official capacities by the Heth regime.

NEWS: Report: Wreckage of Heth’s Escort Found in Aivonen

… Caldari State authorities continue to treat Heth as a live fugitive.

If occupying a Caldari station, being denounced as outlaws and terrorists, and literally engaging in armed rebellion against the Caldari State such that the Navy sends boarding parties to capture or kill you isn’t enough to be considered an ‘enemy’ of the State and a traitor, then let me know, because I’ll be glad to let PIE and Amarr know that they can return my status to me, because apparently there’s nothing wrong with conducting terrorism and rebellion against legitimate authorities.

Are you really going to make this about the exact words, Kim? “Yes they said he was declared a terrorist, outlaw, renegade, fugitive, embezzler of corporate funds, and murderer of Navy officers, and he illegally occupied a Caldari station and took Caldari citizens hostage and he was fired on by the Caldari Navy, but he’s not a traitor or enemy of the State.”? I mean, you’ve never been one to shy away from calling other people traitors for doing less than Heth and the Templis Dragonaurs did, without anyone superior to you charging them explicitly of treason first. So why now?

It hurts to find out people you thought were heroes have betrayed – or been betrayed by – the things you believe in, Kim. I know this very well. But you can’t run from reality. So, what is it? Either Heth was a traitor and you put your faith in the wrong man, or the CEP and the megacorporate CEOs are traitors for betraying him and you are therefore being loyal to a government of traitors. Afterall, by your own words, “Attacking loyal soldiers of the State is attacking the State.” Heth did this, or, the Caldari Navy did. One of them did. Which side were the loyal soldiers, and which were the traitors? One side had to be each. It’s up to you to decide which.


If they claimed exact word, I will demand them to bring where they heard it.

Okay, let me get into a bit deeper details.
Being called a terrorist when you’re clearly not (for example, like Heth) - it is insult, and it’s pity our higher circles descended to that. But yet, it’s a bit shallow insult. Technically, it’s the same as calling him an amateur or guerilla, blaming in lack of professionalism.

Calling someone a traitor, counterwise, is a grave insult. It’s the worst name you can get in the State and worst crime you can commit. Tossing names like that without evidences can get you jailed for slander. Wearing such name when it was proven true means being the lowest dirt in the State.

If a relatively offensive State citizen would meet a terrorist, they would giggle in their face. If they would meet a traitor - they would spit in their face.

Choice of words DO matter.

So attacking loyal soldiers of the State, and thus attacking the State, is not enough for someone to be labeled a traitor in your eyes? Because the evidence against him is high. I mean, he’s been charged guilty of many crimes, including the theft of Caldari ships and the illegal occupation of a Caldari station, and staged an insurgency against the State. Is this not enough to be considered a traitor in your eyes?

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Wait WHAT?!
When did HE attack loyal soldiers of the State??

His ships. He was the Executor.

His station. He was the CEO.

Which exact insurgency?