Even at that, there’s always the chance of bribery or coercion. I don’t think it’s possible for the Republic to produce evidence that the Empire would accept.
If you want the potential for action inside the Empire, things have to be done inside the Empire.
Well, then it won’t happen.
Autocracies hate instability even more than corruption. Evidence: Jamyl Sarum welcomed Garkeh Khanid back as an Heir with no meaningful concessions.
Corruption that solidifies power with those who already have it? That’s not ‘corrupt’, it’s ‘clever’.
Edit: Don’t get me wrong, it’s the politically smart move, especially if you don’t know a hundred alien battleships are going to appear and blow you up. It locks Khanid away from further building an independent power base, and provides the potential for oversight… but it’s still countenancing corruption over instability.
Your edit basically makes my argument for me, so I thank you for that.
Indeed. He grows stronger if left out on his own. Better to keep him under supervision where his power is in check. There really wasn’t an alternative.
It’s ensuring he can be controlled where he otherwise couldn’t and look at where it’s brought us. The Kingdom’s actions have come into the spotlight to a greater degree than ever before. Deceit and sin will ultimately spell the end of anyone under such a spotlight, so should any such information about the the Kingdom come to light, it will be its own undoing. This couldn’t happen if it was left to fester on its own.
The actions and words of certain individuals paint a clear picture of the reality of the situation. The corrupt elements of the Empire are scared. I don’t think they’d possibly be facing the same sorts of pressures if not for the actions of Empress Jamyl I, peace be upon her.
My dear sister-in-arm’s grasp of Imperial and international politics is the keenest in this discussion thus far. I am glad she is here to clear up the misconceptions surrounding the unfortunate Zashev episode and our decision to hand him to Lord Arrach Sarum.
We are confident we made the best choice. Proof that it was should be forthcoming for the benefit of the faithless, but I should remind you transparancy is not required when trust is correctly placed.
Today I met this man who said that a lady should not eat a sausage-on-a-stick because it was “too suggestive” and was an “outrage to public decency”.
I frowned in his direction.
I’d like to vent just a little. It is my frustration in that people assume I am somehow adept at social engineering. Or social interaction in general. This keeps popping up time and time again, that I’m just not admitting to meaning or thinking “thing x.” People keep trying to dredge up hidden meanings from what I say, but I don’t do those, not consciously.
If I don’t like you, you will know, and you will know why, I have no trouble telling people what I think about them or the causes they champion. When I say something, it comes out largely unfiltered words of whatever I was thinking at the time. It is why my posts often have numerous edits afterwards. This has caused problems before and probably will in the future.
So, when I say “I don’t understand the subtext in whatever you wrote there”, it means exactly that: “I don’t understand the subterfuge.” Not that I’m playing mind games, not that I’m pretending not to, I just honestly don’t. (This part was especially directed at you @Melisma_Ramijozana)
Next time, aggressively eat sausage in his direction, like this:
Replying here instead of the Arrests thread, since it was off-topic for that thread.
Over some. It’s an overstatement to say ‘all’ faithful outside the Empire fall under his authority.
“Recent additions” are converts and Reclaimed. How do you think they became recent additions? Now, of course, he’s not going around enslaving people or coercing them to convert, but that doesn’t mean his staff don’t have the goal of Reclaiming Minmatar. Spreading the faith is carrying out the Reclaiming. I would not call it a ‘sinister plot’, but convincing people to take up the faith, and administering to their needs, is his goal.
Now, of course, I value what he does, and would have appreciated having more access to formal Amarr religious structure in the Republic when I lived there. But for many Minmatar opposed to Amarr in the Republic, that will still be too much, as he is still converting, and still Reclaiming.
Righto then, ■■■■.
I don’t believe you, and at this point, I’m so frustrated with you that just seeing your name on a post here is exhausting.
Let’s say you really are so socially inept that you don’t realize that using “they” instead of “she” when referring to a female person is dehumanizing. If your ability to understand basic social manners like this, then you shouldn’t be interacting on a text-based forum, where there’s no way for you to intimate intentions or mood beyond just your poorly-chosen words.
Or, to put it briefly in case you “don’t understand” me: Go away.
Edit to acknowledge the above post: Case in ■■■■■■■ point.
They is a generic ■■■■■■■ pronoun. It is not a goddamn slight against you. ■■■■■. That is.
Samira… I didn’t say that “‘all’ faithful outside the Empire fall under his authority.” I literally did not say that. The “pretty much” is there because I know his operations do include space beyond the Republic, but I can’t remember exactly how much, because I am not an expert on the subject at all.
Don’t twist my words just to satisfy a point, please.
By choice, Samira.
The difference here is choice.
Sera’s implication in the other thread was that Constantin’s presence is a sign of yet another nonconsensual Reclaiming, as if he’s the first step toward a Day of Darkness redux. That’s simply not true. Constantin is there because there was a need for an archdiocese for faithful who were already in the Republic before he got there. Since then, many more Matari have adopted the faith, yes. But not because they were born into it and required to practice it; not because they were never made aware of other options; not because they were kidnapped and forced into a Reclaiming. They adopted it because they saw something in the faith that they liked.
As I said before, I personally believe that that’s beyond gross. But there’s probably something comforting about the idea of one creator god that makes good things happen for you if you just worship him enough. I dunno.
And as I also said before, everyone should have the ability to choose, and there’s nothing wrong with Matari openly choosing to join the faith while aware of their options and what their conversion means (ie: being Reclaimed). In fact, I could even consider them really ■■■■■■■ brave for adopting the faith despite threats and violence from their own Matari kin.
Yes, it is. What’s wrong with that? Everyone has needs, and those needs have to be cared for in some way. Where would you have our siblings who choose the faith go otherwise? Back to Amarr?
Then that’s their problem. And it’s not as if they don’t make it known. They’re the shitheads who think it’s okay to lay hands on kin just because of what they believe in.
I know Constantin. I’ve been to the temple and I’ve met much of the staff and clergy there. I’ve chatted with parishioners. There’s nothing nefarious afoot. In fact, I would go so far as to say that their team does more to help Matari (albeit mostly faithful Matari) than many of the Matari capsuleers who gallivant about on this forum.
Now, for everyone who’s rubbing their hands at the chance to attack me over supporting the faith: I am only talking about Constantin’s archdiocese, because I’ve personally had contact with it. Any other Amarr working in Republic space, I’m not vouching for.
I’m not twisting them. That is just how it came across to me. If my interpretation of what you were saying was inaccurate, then I apologize.
I already said, I very much support what he is doing. I am not against it. I’m an Amarrian faithful, afterall. I lived in the Republic once. We held services in the basement of a sandwich shop.
But it’s a lie to say he is “not converting or Reclaiming people.” That’s what I was calling out, because converting and Reclaiming people is exactly what he’s doing. What he’s not doing is enslaving people, or coercing them into the faith. To take a page from your own book: you were using the wrong words.
And you’ll never convince those who hate Amarr that he’s doing something better. Whether by force or peace, any spreading of Amarrian influence is considered too much for some. My priest in Kaihu was stabbed by assholes from a local gang. He hadn’t done anything bad to anyone. Same thing with Abel Jarek. It’s not about how it’s done to a lot of people. That it’s done at all is enough.
It might be prudent to explain my day job at some point when I’m not actively swamped in it. Thank you for the appreciation expressed by all those who expressed it, though. It gets me through these meetings!
I accept your apology. Thank you.
Fine, maybe I did use the wrong words. What I was arguing against is the intention, and that remains the same. The original assertion was that his presence in the Republic was an indication of malicious work by the Empire. That is false.
I was one of these people until very recently. Then I took the opportunity to talk to people instead of projecting my fears and insecurities onto them. I’d like to see more of my kin doing that, instead of shouting down open overtures out of hand.
Don’t worry, they’ll streamline it to ‘you know what I meant’ soon.
What the actual screaming fekk? ‘They’ is gender-neutral, and specifically for people. You don’t look at a stack of coins and say ‘they’. It’s ‘those’. Animals might be ‘they’, but we have a tendency to project humanizing perceptions onto them.
Seriously, what the hell are you smoking that ‘they’ is ‘dehumanizing’? Are you just looking for reasons to be outraged? If it’s not dehumanizing to say ‘they’ about a man, it’s not dehumanizing to say ‘they’ about a woman. It is literally treating them exactly the same way.
Yeah. Yeah, you literally did.
So you’re ok with people being coerced and deceived into swearing allegiance to the Amarr Empire while living in the Republic? Because that is what the Amarr faith is. Those who believe in the Amarr god but do not believe their first loyalty in this universe is to him, and their second to his mouthpiece, the Emperor/Empress, are heretics.
Minmatar aren’t obliged to help the Amarr, or their proxy drones, to spread the Amarrian faith. Not after what it has done to them and their ancestors. I’m fine with practitioners of the faith as long as they keep it to themselves. But actively converting people in the Republic? Do so at your own risk.
I don’t know about your priest, and unfortunate that he got stabbed, but Abel Jarek certainly was asking for trouble. I can’t imagine Amarr taking kindly to say, if my mom went to Dam-Torsad to teach them about ancestor worship and rituals. Would it excuse murder? No. Of course not. But there are people in the world that hold various things sacrosanct, such as places our ancestors worshipped or lived in - and introducing its antithesis there is not a good idea.
Our faith demands more than that.
It is known. The dynamic is kind of like watching the unstoppable force approaching the immovable object. Both are likely to get hurt, yet neither should be as stupid as inanimate objects or abstract concepts.