EWAR question for small scale pvp

Is Electronic warfare (EWAR) is useable in small-scale PVP (frigates and destroyers) 1 vs 1 or really small fleets?

Is there any reason to use it? What are the limits? Can it be used in low-sec systems (faction warfare) or highsecs?

What is the best one? ECM? Tracking disruption? Target painting? Neuting?

What race’s EWAR, barring the caldari (because it seems that they have the best and the most usable EWAR type) is the most useful in small-scale PVP?

Is there any use for EWAR drones in small-scale PVP? Or is the chance too low to be somewhat useful?

In a 1v1 situation, don’t bother. You’re better off using that midslot for something that’ll help kill your opponent faster or help you survive longer. As for small scale, again, don’t really bother. There are some gimmicky things you can do, but honestly, you are better off fitting things that keep you alive longer or kill faster.

In most situations, something like a Kitsune with ECM jams will be annoying as hell for anyone to deal with since you can casually sit far away out of their range and jam them while your gang kills the target. Otherwise, don’t bother with the rest of the ECM, they’re basically useless outside of large fleet fights (though even then, ECM is still preferred to break Logi chains and reps).

Lol. ECM. LOL

1 v 1 means you are literally doing nothing but wasting slots and are about to die.

1 v n+ means you are still doing nothing but every enemy on the field is about to volley you off the field.

ECM = :clown_face:

Just eliminate it, CCP.

Disrupters are the only viable option… and only if you are looking for very specific targets, which greatly limits the content availability.

Ewar by it’s nature is very situational. So unless you have a specific idea of what ewar you need, when and why; take an extra dps ship or tank or tackle mid slot. It’s far more useful in a general sense.

I can say that it is quite common to find tracking Disruptors in solo/small gangs. But we’re talking specific fits here.

If you have to ask, shouldn’t probably use them.

Im going to be assuming you don’t mean points and webs. the two most common forms of E-war. So common most don’t class them as E-war.

yes there are even some ships like the navy E-war frigates built around solo (with mixed results) however in small gangs a dedicated E-war ship can be a massive force multiplier and have you hit well above your weight.

There are no limits other than the ECM burst that I would say to never use in HS and only use in LS if you don’t care about sec status.

the main reason to use most forms of E-war is to limit or outright remove an opponent from a fight. It can also be used to force an opponent into the fight you want.

ECM is by far the worst but I would argue it’s the easiest to understand (it’s either working or it’s not) when it comes to drones it is the best choice. The rest of the E-war drones are arguably useless. The ‘strongest’ while unlike ECM they technically don’t prevent your target from locking on paper they do in reality easily able to take a BB down under 6km lock range with a dedicated ship (even under 2km if using heat)

I put strongest in quotes because while it definitely does have the most powerful effect weapon disruptors do a similar thing but are limited only to the ships weapons. Their biggest disadvantage is needing two different modules to work on turrets or missiles. However where they shine is unlike with damps your target often does not realize just how weekend their ship has become right away (or at all) causing them to stay on grind longer rather than start running.

Target painters on there own are really niche when it comes to dedicating an entire bonused ship to them and I would argue give ECM a run for its money as the worst E-war in that situation. However the minmatar T2 give bonuses to both web range and target painters this makes a single paint (or even a double if running with a BB) more than worth it. You have the amazing control given to you from the webs and the multiply the effect of the painters.

Now for why ECM is the worst. Well… damps just do everything they do better they still leave the ECM ship vulnerable and while a good ECM pilot can manipulate the RNG in his favor it still means lady luck decides your fate in a fleet reliant on ECM. It’s one nice is countering a set up like T3 logistics that sits in close with its fleet protecting it from damps. Problem is those ships naturally have some of the highest resistance to ECM and are fit to counter it further making damps geared toward lock speed a better option imo.

I’m classing ECM burst separate from ECM as their use and intended hulls are different. They can be fitted to anything but outside of some memes or yolo fits it will be the scorpion or the widow that you use these on. If you know what you’re doing, or better yet in a fleet that knows how to work with these setups they can be extremely oppressive. Likewise despite what some people will try to tell you the widow and scorpion should not be fit with standard ECM the blackbird and falcon will always do that job better for cheaper.

nuets are not E-war but rather like NOS are cap-warfare modules. This distinction may seem like semantics but they are handled differently both in their usefulness on unbonused ships and being more restrictive in use do it them being high slots. However I would say if you do have an open high and the required fitting you should always slap a nuet on there (or a nos where applicable) even if its only used defensively.

as stated before ECM is probably the weakest. its even worse in small fleets where its easy to focus and kill or chase off whatever is using the ECM. Particularly when there are a lot of ships that have the range and firepower to 1shot many ECM boats on there own and you become the only thing they can shoot.

T1 I would say either damps or WD is the best for small scale PvP. WD ships also tend to come with more DPS and nuets however damps are just crazy strong and will be more useful in a wider variety of fights.

T2 it’s going to be the gallente damp ships as they also get extended scram and crazy levels of point range. T2 also gives you some nice nuet bonuses with the amarr WD but I would still rather have the damps and points in most fleets.

only the ECM drones… in fact if your ship only holds a few unbonused drones I would say use the ECM ones. being as it is either a jammed or not jammed situation the low chance doesn’t matter particularly in you have 10+ drones constantly checking if they jam independently. the larger nuet drones are the only other ones that don’t have a stacking penalty so can become effective in large numbers (or even small numbers if you are already nueting and just need to keep a ship capped out) but it’s very niche. The rest all have stacking penalties and are pretty much useless. CCP needs to up their bandwidth and effectiveness by x5 and maybe they would see use.

in 1v1s I have seen a few fits that make use of web drones just to eek out a small advantage but it’s rare.

I agree with most of it but ECM is fine.
The real issue is people on both ends wanting to be in control instead of embracing the chaos. That is why, as you said in another thread, ECM is the most oppressive and totally broken eWar at the same time.

Well no, ecm only becomes the most oppressive when we’re taking about the frigates and cruisers where the rng is removed and you have 100% jam chance.

Not sure how you can say ecm is fine when it’s just a worse damp.

What is there to be sure or not sure? I don’t share your opinion, that’s all. Plenty of people picking ECM over other kinds of eWar and being successful with it.

There are also plenty of people who choose to eat fast food because they think it saves them money and still manage to increase there savings at the end of the month. That doesn’t mean they are actually making a good choice to save money.

In what way is an ecm super to a damp especially after the nerf?

nah. I will not dive into this argument.
You don’t want to consider the possibility that you might be wrong and I have nothing to gain in trying to convince you.
I will just let you with your opinion and stay with mine. Is that fine for you?

Yes… asking you what advantages ecm has over damps is indicative of me being unwilling to have my mind changed.

Likewise even if nothing you said could change my mind you giving what I have to assume you belive to be valid reasons to use ecm over damps would in no way be productive to anyone reading a thread about the benefits of each ewar platform.

Nope, the indicative was to do it after I gave my reasoning for why IMHO ECM is fine.
But don’t take that as an offense, it is a matter of economy, I rather not spend energy arguing with someone that I mostly agree and I think, in those point we don’t share the same opinion, can agree to disagree with me.

5v5 me, where i get a sixth player who can only do ECM and nothing else.

We will see whos laughing then.

If I had 4 other competent pilots I would take you up on that, considering a damp ship could remove your ecm pilot from the fight and probably two others depending on fleet comps.

Highly unlikely, as my ecm ship will be fitted for maximum anti-dampness.

if only it was the old days. sadly they can’t even do that anymore.

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you do aware that you will be primary right? and you expect rest of the opponents will sit there in range and wait your men will kill them ?

EWAR is useful, but as with everything in EVE: it depends on the circumstances how useful it is.

I would categorize EWAR in three categories: tackle ewar, offensive ewar and defensive ewar.

Tackle ewar like scrams and points are kind of necessary to hold someone down, especially in small scale fights where you usually cannot alpha volley your targets before they warp or MJD out of reach.

Offensive ewar like target painters and webs can greatly increase not only your own damage to the target, but also the damage of your allies. Depending on the situation, it may be better to equip one of these rather than an application module for overall dps increase. Very useful when fighting with small groups of bombers against targets that are small and tiny.

Defensive ewar like ECM, sensor damps and tracking disruptors can reduce the damage you and your friends take by reducing enemy effectiveness without killing them. ECM is a bit binary in that it either is very effective or doesn’t do much at all, which is why some people dislike it. But it greatly increases the odds someone tries to kill your ship, acting like a taunt that gets aggro to your ship in a PvP situation, which could be used in smart ways.

I personally haven’t used tracking disruptors much, but I love using sensor damps: they’re almost always useful, even though they don’t seem to do much sometimes. When dropping bombers on a target (which was my main small scale pvp activity last couple months) I loved bringing one sensor damp to increase the time it took for enemies to start locking us up. For a strategy that’s about getting in, killing and exiting asap in paper-thin ships, reducing the time for the opponent to shoot back is pretty useful.

I would usually prefer sensor damps over ECM, as it is a bit more flexible, but in case you know the enemy composition ECM could be incredibly powerful.

That leaves neuts and nosferatus. Not sure if I would call it defensive or offensive EWAR, maybe I would rather call it a separate weapon system instead, one that attacks the enemy capacitor rather than hitpoints. And that can be really effective to reduce their hitpoints as well if their fit depends on active modules for their tank.

EWAR is really powerful, situationally.

EWAR drones are pretty useless, due to stacking penalties and low bonuses per drone. ECM drones are sometimes used, but in other situations I would rather bring dps drones to the combat situation instead.

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You mean, forcing every opponent to try and target and take down a small, fast EWAR ship while the rest of my friends are free to target and shoot larger, easily tracked and easily hit targets? And my opponents having zero ability to be repaired by outside ships, while my small ewar ship can still be repaired by my own logi?

Yes, I’d want all my opponents targeting and trying to kill my ewar ship, because it means I get free reign to target any of theirs. I think thats the point.

You don’t understand the importance and usefulness of ewar at all.

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