Faction Warfare in 2021

Faction Warfare Overview

Faction Warfare, when launched was a fun game mechanic allowing players to fight for their faction empires in a semi null-sec game of regional supremacy. It has brought in potentially tens of thousands of players who don’t have to worry about the politics and mechanics of null sec and instead focus on Player vs Player combat with some Player vs Environment game-play.

Capturing systems from one side to the other is based on capturing Enemy Complexes located in space and earning points towards a system vulnerability state. In addition to generating system victory points, capturing a Complex (Plex) also generates Faction loyalty points (LP) for those involved. Once vulnerable, the systems infrastructure hub (IHUB) can be attacked and once placed into structure the system will flip to the opposing side after downtime.

Once captured, a system can be upgraded using earned LP from complexes and FW missions in order to increase benefits of manufacturing and production within that system. The level of upgrade ranges from Null (-) to 5.

These points are then combined with the levels of all other controlled systems for your faction to establish the current Tier of LP rewards generated by Plexing and running FW missions. These range from Tier 1 which is a Negative 50% LP reward for Plex captures / FW Missions to Tier 5 which is 225% Reward Increase for Plex captures / FW Missions.

Faction Warfare as it stands

Faction warfare in its current state is in terrible condition. While the original concept still holds. The game as a whole has changed dramatically over the years, with FW mechanics desperately needing an update to stay relevant in presenting a persistent game play alternative to null sec empire building.

While there are many parties that participate within the war zones it has become a prolific source of easy income with little participation for multiple entities within EVE. This has to do with the abuse of the Faction Tier system. Non-coordinated entities can easily push the Tier level from one side to the other in order to farm that faction’s LP. These farmers generally rely on low cost / high damage frigates and destroyers to run Novice, Small, and Medium Complexes. Their capture lowers the current tier of the system and awards a set number of capture points to the opposing faction for that system. This causes many issues for those trying to defend their space. For instance, Novice Complexes only take 10 minutes to Capture and reward the same number of capture points as a Medium Complex 20 minutes to capture. With Plex respawn mechanics it is possible to capture more lower timed complexes and rapidly diminish the faction tier with the owners having little or no chance to defend their tier without spending significant earned LP to keep the system tier up.

The use of this process allows these non-coordinated LP Farmers to switch from one faction to the other based on the current cash out value of that faction’s LP. In essence, there exists a significant number of players who use the FW Warzones as a means to generate ISK with little to no participation towards the actual objective of Faction Warfare which is about conflict.

This change back and forth is referred to as “The Flip’’ and is an incredibly controversial topic with the FW community. This is because it is not the members of the FW PVP groups that control the warzone, but those wishing to make economic gains with little loyalty to the faction they are with. When your faction reaches Tier 1, it becomes incredibly difficult for those fighting to gain any rewards for participating within the system due to the -50% Penalty to LP payouts for Plexing / FW Missions. Thus it becomes even more difficult to both enlist more people to fight in FW space or even enjoy the play style because it is not economically viable as a way of making ISK.

Faction Warfare Changes

Below I will lay out a series of changes that I feel would be beneficial to both the system as a whole, and help invigorate the FW community as well as fulfill a CCP goal of moving more players towards Lowsec Space. These changes will be broken into what I feel are easily accomplished, moving into those that will actually take some form of development from CCP to implement.

These changes should be easily updated

  1. Update to the FW Complex System Capture Reward. -

At present the reward for capturing any complex in the Warzone is 0.6 Capture Points. This is the same for a 10 Minute Capture Novice as a 30 Minute Capture Open. This needs to change! Because the capture points are the same, and the time to capture smaller complexes is so little, there is greater emphasis on capturing Novice and Small complexes than their larger siblings. I would recommend the following changes.

Novice 0.3 / Small 0.4 / Medium 0.5 / Large 0.6 / Open 0.9

This change would break out the current meta for system captures and force fights into the larger complexes, which give the larger rewards. Please note the open, which can be contested by any entity.

  1. Return Large Complexes as a static spawn and / or Move Opens as Rare Spawns. -

Large Complexes in the warzone are a very rare sight. This has to do with the fact that they appear to be roaming rare spawns. I would like to see Large Complexes restored as Static and limited to T2 Battlecruisers and down. This addition would allow battlecruisers the chance to enter a plex and not have to worry about the vulnerables of having to fight in Open Plexes.

While Open Complexes provide significant content for all entities that move through the warzone, it provides issues when fighting neutral or non FW groups because they are not forced to enter the complex through a gate, and thus suffer the same suspect flag as those trying to enter other FW complexes. Because of this I feel that the Open should not only give the highest capture value, but also be a roaming spawn within its constellation.

  1. FW Complex / Mission Update – Warp Disruption

At present there is little to risk when entering a FW Plex. This has to do with the fact that if the player that is trying to Capture the complex spots an enemy outside, or nearby, they can quickly warp out to a safe spot and wait for the danger to pass. This is a common tactic used by FW LP Farmers because it presents little risk to the farmer. I believe that making the Plex NPC warp disrupt an opposing faction’s ship would allow for more risk when attempting to capture a complex. This would increase the danger of Plexing while the NPC is alive as well as allow for defenders an opportunity to defend against someone attempting to run a complex.

I would like to see the number of warp disrupting rats increased in all missions. At present it is too easy to “headshot” or eliminate a needed rat to complete most missions and then warp out without any real danger. The addition of more warp disruption would help to add some ability for defenders to stop mission runners and in the least increase the amount of risk a mission runner faces.

  1. Update the FW Tier System –

When the tier system was first introduced it was the belief that a lower tier would invigorate a faction to push their tier up or risk suffering the lower LP rewards. After years of farmers being the only driver to getting a faction out of tier 1, it’s time for this to change.

Tier 1 – Normal LP Rewards

Tier 2 – 25% LP Rewards

Tier 3 – 50% LP Rewards

Tier 4 – 75% LP Rewards

Tier 5 – 100% LP Rewards

While this could be variable, Tier 1 needs a change as it allows for more people to gain some form of reward when under Tier 1.

  1. Faction System Docking -

At present FW members are not allowed to dock in NPC stations in systems controlled by the opposing faction. While this has helped to establish ownership of a system, the release of player owned citadels has completely removed this features original intent. While I believe the use of Citadels are an important part of faction warfare, I do not believe hiding behind a neutral Citadel owner should be allowed. I would like to see all docking restricted to systems owned by opposing factions with exception of Citadels owned by your current faction. This would still allow a group to deploy a citadel in an opposing system and dock there, but would not force the opposing faction to engage a neutral structure to do so.

Example:

The Caldari control Tama, which blocks opposing factions from docking in both the NPC stations and local neutral player structures.

Deciding to attack the system, the Gallente deploy an Astra from their Militia corporations which allows them to dock within that structure.

These changes may require some development

  1. Faction Rank LP Rewards –

At present your faction rank which increases through FW Faction Standing while Plexing and running FW Missions means little. This proposal would allow for an %LP Increase for Plexing / FW Mission running based on your rank. This amount would stack with your current factions LP tier and allow for continued rewards as you move up ranks.

Rank 1 Normal LP Rewards

Rank 2 – 10% LP Rewards

Rank 3 – 20% LP Rewards

………

Rank 10 – 90% LP Rewards

Example – Tier 2 – 25% + Rank 5 – 40% would be an LP reward bonus for FW Plexing and FW Missions of 65%

  1. Faction Warfare LP Store Update –

At present the FW Stores have been left untouched for years and have desperately been in need of a change. This has left some faction stores being extremely unreliable as a way of cashing out LP. This has to do with three things.

  1. The cost of some items in the store, relative to their actual value.

  2. The requirement of FW Tags for many if not most items.

  3. The lack of a direct cash out item for LP

The solution for the first is easy, there needs to be a normalized LP cost for goods within the store. At present modules exist as T1 / T2 / Faction / Deadspace / Officer. Faction in many cases offers more benefit than T2, yet their price is extreme in many cases vs their deadspace cousins. By lower LP / tag costs they can see more use and fit better within the meta.

The solution for the second can be found with FW Plexing. At present the only way to get FW Tags is to Plex or run FW missions. Both entities drop FW Tags. The problem is that a significant number of those tags required to purchase goods in the store can only be acquired through FW Missions.

I would like to see the tags updated with the store, and those tags also be looted in the FW Plex.

Example:

Novice / Small Plex NPC’s drop tags for Frigate sized modules and rewards.

Medium / Large Plex NPC’s drop tags for Cruiser sized modules and rewards.

Open Plex NPC’s drop tags for BS sized modules and rewards

Also, the rewards could be purchased with an increased number of a lower tier reward.

Example.

BS Sized Gun required 10k LP and 1 Open Tag or BS Gun requires 10k LP and 5 Medium / Large Tags

The solution for the third is a direct LP Tag or Item option to be sold to the faction militia. Much like the Red Trig Items or Blue Drifter Items that have no manufacturing value but have NPC buyers always willing to purchase for ISK. The creation of this would allow newer players to the game who do not have much experience with the market or the LP store to cash out their LP for these items, and then sell them for ISK so they can continue to contribute to the warzone.

Example:

1000 LP for Faction Loyalty Cert – Sell to Militia Vendor for 500k ISK.

This change would set a standard reward for LP for the militias, but still allow those who are savvy with the market to earn for their LP through selling Faction modules / ships.

  1. Corporation / Alliance LP Taxation -

EVE allows for all alliances / corporations the option of taxing the ISK made through ratting and other actions of its players. This is not the case with Faction Warfare. FW uses LP as its means of currency, it is used to upgrade system tiers and purchase items within their factions LP store. Sadly there is no way at present for Corporations or Alliances to Tax LP earned through FW Missions or Plexing. Thus it is incredibly difficult for those entities to fund their operations, unlike those that reside in Null or High Security space. The addition of allowing these entities to Tax LP would allow the ability to generate money within the warzone to survive. This is a huge ask for a lot of corporations as we are not able to generate ISK in the way other groups can.

These changes may require some significant development

  1. Faction Warfare Front Lines -

Currently, a FW system can be flipped no matter where it exists within a warzone. This means that a system can be captured anywhere, no matter what location it has within the warzone. This type of back capture tends to spread conflict out and allows for farming in the less traveled areas where there is little conflict. This proposal would attempt to move the conflict to more contested systems through changing plex respawn rates and further incentivizing LP plex rewards. To do this Front line systems would be any system directly linked next to an enemy factions system.

Example.

Amarr control Kamela and Lamaa

Minmatar control Kourmonen

Since Kamela and Lamaa are attached to Kourmonen via stargates they are flagged as Front Line systems.

Because of this, Plexing in these systems will reward Higher LP (ex. 25-50%) and Complexes will respawn 25-50% faster.

In Addition to this, only Front line systems can be put into a vulnerable state and captured.

So a system that has its system capture pushed to 100% and is not a front line system cannot be captured and its I-Hub cannot be attacked until it is considered a Front Line star system.

Because LP is the primary currency of FW, this would allow for more content to shift to the Front line systems, as well as make many systems strategic to hold.

Players still could plex elsewhere in the warzone, but the frontline systems would provide the greatest risk to reward ratios.

  1. System Tier Upgrades – Expanded

Currently upgrading a systems tier only affects System Pricing and market fees. I feel this can be expanded on dramatically to simulate some of the benefits the nullsec empires are allowed in FW space. FW space is different from all other types of low security, as the militias are fighting for their respective empires, it makes sense to me that upgrading the tier of a system should bring significant benefits to it by upgrading its IHUB.

Example:

Tier 0 – No Bonus

Tier 1 – Militia Frontier System – 1M LP Cost– Market / Manufacture Bonus 10% - IHUB Generates Lower quality “Militia Combat Anomalies”

“Militia Combat Anomalies” - Similar to Current NPC combat anomalies but filled with current faction owner NPC rats that reward limited LP and Drop Tags

Tier 2 – Militia Outpost System – 5M LP Cost– Market Bonus 20% – IHUB Generates Medium Quality “Militia Combat Anomalies”

Tier 3 – Militia Stronghold System – 10M LP Cost – Market Bonus 30% - IHUB Generates High Quality “Militia Combat Anomalies” – IHUB Sentry Turrets for Defense (Similar to Gate Guns in Damage which can be disabled if put into hull - These will attack opposing faction ships)

Tier 4 – Militia Fortress System – 25M LP Cost– Market Bonus 40% - IHUB Generates High Quality “Militia Combat Anomalies” – Increased IHUB Sentry Turrets for Defense – System Capture % Reduces by 0.1 Per Hour –

Tier 5 – Militia Capital System (One Per Constellation) 50M LP Cost– Market Bonus 50% - IHUB Generates High Quality “Militia Combat Anomalies” – Enemy Plexing No longer reduces System Tier – Increased IHUB Sentry Turrets for Defense – System Capture % Reduces by 0.1Per Hour – IHUB Jump Bridge (Costs LP to use. Links to other Militia Capital Systems in Adjacent Constellations)

The addition of the IHUB generating militia combat anomalies would allow militia members an alternative to Plexing and Missions to gain LP and tags to redeem in the faction store.

The idea is to provide benefits and objectives for the militia groups to fight over. The significant LP costs for upgrades give a sense of accomplishment, and balance as territory is claimed and defended.

Closing

I have tried to summarize the changes I would like to see made to faction warfare to make it a modern and viable part of EVE. It has been around for a long time, and has always been the place I have found the most enjoyment in this game. I know many may not agree with all the changes I would like to see, but I feel this is one of the most balanced approaches to address many of the concerns within the FW community.

Thank you,

Savros Hunturas

Red Sky Morning

Local Is Primary

TLDR:

Proposal for minor to significant development updates to the faction warfare system. If you got this far through reading I want to thank you for your time.

14 Likes

I really love this. Incentivizing the use of larger ships is something that me, and a lot of my corp mates, want. Fighting cheap dessies and frigs gets pretty boring after a while.

2 Likes

Number 3. All of the other changes aside I would return to faction war of this were implemented. A year or 2 back a couple friends and I decided we would try fw and enlisted shipped up and ventured out to get blown up. Ended up logging off and never trying it again within a few hours after countless situations where we would head in and there guy sitting in the complex would immediately dock or just run. Even when only 1 of us would enter the system to try and lock someone down they would still do this. This type of risk adverse game play belongs in null anomalies not content that is directly related to conflict.

2 Likes

Very good points well layed out.
I agree on most things.
Lets hope this kicks off a healthy discussion about FW.

1 Like

Shamelessly bumping.

Bumping again.
It’s super unfortunate, that those well laid out ideas don’t get any ccp attention at all…

1 Like

This makes sense logically. But before significant changes are made to the overall pendulum nature of FW this would worsen things for the underdog faction. Currently the outnumbered side is capable of slowing down the offense by either shipping down and blueballing or shipping up and outclassing - by having closer reships. So maybe it does need to be scaled but the difference should be smaller.

This one I like. Battlecruisers definetely need more love. But this would give even less opportunities for T3Cs, so maybe allow them in larges too.

This would complicate the most wanted thing in eve - honorable solo pvp - to be found around warzone. Currently fw rats pose no real threat and thus considered irrelevant by Zkill when flagging killmails as solo ones. Equipping the rats in plexes with ewar and tackle would make them count as actual combatants and also shift the meta of fitting ships - there would be less reason to fit a point and I’m not sure the dilemma of ‘dual webs or point/scram’ needs to be made easier.

It’s only a quantity change, but I agree on this one - the endgame of warzone control should be more challenging for the winning side and more rewarding for the losing.

They alteady disallowed tethering in hostile systems - even on structures owned by your faction, I believe. So you can camp em if you want. Banning docking access on neutral player structures would just make no sense.

Interesting proposal. But you know when you lose ranks? When you awox someone. You know when a loyal militiaman awoxes someone? When that someone is a known spy)

Yea, having viable means of obtaining tags would be nice. Currently you have to purge mission rooms entirely in order to get those that are worth something. That’s too much pain in the aft. As a result, marketeers have too much influence on the matter. But on the other hand, making tags easier to obtain would definetely drop prices on faction stuff - and that’s a double-edged sword, kind of.

I’m not sure making non-frontline systems invulnerable would be a good thing. It might just make warfare too rigid - less opportunities for guerilla ops, more for winning by the numbers.
But I definetely agree that system upgrade level should give more benefits. I especially like the I-Hub Jump Bridge idea - that would be so cool
Also 1 capital (level V) system per constellation might be too bold of a restriction - constellations vary by size and the whole warzone is very eneven, so it might just not add up properly.

1 Like

LOL stop whining rats inside plex need to scramb… look at the cal/gal zone… full of bots that run… the making 50-60mil / hr in a 2mil ship… talk about risk and reward…

are you ok ?

Is that a reason to turn a fw plex into a pve site? It aint gonna help btw

dont want the rats to scram your bots I guess ? :confused:

I guess if I had them I wouldn’t care. Add scram only to existing rats, leaving same tank and dps. Does it change the picture? Not really - the rat lives for 2 seconds under a dessie’s fire. Odds of hunter landing inside within this time are slim to say the least.
Add scram, dps and tank to the rats - and the plex is not a pvp area anymore. And yea, that still doesn’t prevent botting.
So no, I’m not defending bots. I’m concerned about collateral damage to the gameplay by non-effective anti-botting changes.

1 Like

Another bump because I have learned a lot from the original post.
Also compounded some of my confusion, but that’s normal.

I’ve found that when I go to any of these sites the hunters find me very quickly, there’s nothing slim about it.

1 Like

I think, you’ve missed the point here. Odds of a hunter coming at all are indeed high, it is the odds of them doing that while the rat is alive that are slim. A destroyer fitted for oplexing (and if we talk about bots - they’re gonna be flying exactly that) usually kills the rat in a couple of seconds - so go figure

I think you’re right, I didn’t realize the rats were… I don’t know how to word this…
I didn’t realize the rats figured in this heavily I guess. To me they are just rats…

A few extra seconds is all that is usualy needed

The inside of the plex is invisible to the hunter, so these extra seconds are impossible to be conciously made use of. So the benefits of this change are questionable while the side-effects are potentially harmful to the entire section of the gameplay.

More importantly. If the idea of buffing fw plex rats is meant as a counter-measure to fw bots, then I gotta remind you, that botting is a plague that affects not only factional warfare, but also mining, ratting and so on. And thus it needs to be addressed outside of fw context. Otherwise it’s gonna be an infinite loop of useless changes of unbroken things.

Its not invisible you can get both the target and the npc rat on dscan.

Really shows how little you know about FW, the bots and especially pvp.

A) Bots scan 1au (outside the plex) via dscan.
B) Something pops up they run.

A hunter can scan the plex from 1-5au while aligned. Wait for the rat to spawn and thus scramble and then be on top of the bot within seconds. Look at frigate (most common FW Ship and enough to kill a bot) warp and align speeds.

So clearly a) you have no clue what you are talking about or b) you have a keen interested in protecting bots / lp farmers.

So which one is it ? No backing out.

1 Like

Oh nice, a forum wrestler, overly protective of a questinable feature, is going personal on me accusing of bot protection and calling me a newb. Lemme screen your killboard, pal… Just as I thought. At least use a character with reputation when you’re calling people names.

Now, about your ‘split sceond benefits’
You still need to refresh dscan in time, land on gate and punch it - more than enough time for the bot to kill the rat. Also, the hunter (unlike the bot) is a subject to human factor. So half the time they just gonna blow it completely - not every hunter is as good as you, Mr. 1337-PvP-MasterRace
So how many bots out of 10 are denied by this feature? 1? 2?

About the side-effects:
First of all it’s gonna affect new players, actually struggling to kill rats with their poorly fitted ships and insufficient skills. A lot more ships gonna be lost instead of being refit for another try. Consequnce: fresh blood flow for fw suffocates
Then it’s gonna affect morale of standing fleets - since pilots’ skills tend to mysteriously drop along with the fleet size growth, FCs gonna lose numbers to rat scrams which is ridiculously awkward.
Then it’s gonna affect the entirety of PvP in Factional Warfare area of Low-Security Space. The rats with scrams gonna have a vote in a competition of a dual-web incursus vs scram-kiting rifter.

Now tell me, is it bloody worth it to change the meta in the entire cluster so that a botter spends 2-ships-worth more and keeps doing his thing?

1 Like