Faction Warfare in 2021

So I have a thought (oh christ, not again).
What if there was a chat channel that opened when you arrive in these sites that asks a simple question a bot can’t answer? This could even be a verbal question maybe. The correct answer would activate the timer, and periodically you would be asked another question with a bit of time to respond in case you were about to get in a fight.
This would turn off if someone was at or warping to the gate but only if they were neutral or on the opposing side from whoever was in the site. This would allow PvP to work normally, with maybe a quick hiccup with obsessive Dscanning.
Another possibility is having multiple gates to go through with random names and the chat channel could tell you something like “go through the light blue gate” I think that would be extremely hard to script for.
Another, semi obnoxious possibility could be something like the hacking mini game, but you would have to essentially vanish from space while you were doing it so you couldn’t be pounced on (otherwise real players would say “screw this, I’m going back to ship spinning”. Maybe the whole time you were hacking you could be in warp and impossible to track or something. Also it doesn’t have to be the hacking thing, just something visual that bots can’t do.
The main thing is that these are bots, they can’t see, they can’t hear and they can’t respond to things like this unless they are so good they can pass a Turing test. In that event we are all kind of screwed.

To make this, however it works, even more fun would be the punishment for failing. Fail three times or simply don’t respond and WOOOOOOSH! Off you go to deepest nullsec, a wormhole, the abyss, or maybe right to the homeworld of your enemy. I for example would end up in Amarr. For me that would be amusing, I would go shopping, but for the person scripting a bot it could be really really aggravating.

The biggest problem is CCP asking questions that make no sense, or making all of the gates the same color. The questions would have to be non-repeating, and quick to answer, maybe instead of a chat channel a small window could pop up and say “click button number eleven” or something…
Anyway the possibilities are endless and could be used elsewhere like astroid belts, PvE sites and so on to screw more than just this specific type of bot.

Maybe something simple like having the site itself being in motion could be done, how would someone script a bot to stay within a certain area only defined by something like a cloud? That could make fighting more interesting as well, not only would you have to kill each other but you would have to also stay in a certain area to keep the timer going.

People complain about bots mining astroid and ice belts and all CCP has to do is make astroids and ice dangerous. They, in what, eighteen years? Haven’t done this, the game Astroids came out in 1979 according to google, I don’t see the problem personally. I do see it as making mining a hell of a lot more fun though.

Ok, I’m done, I keep having ideas and could go on for ages with this.

I am an airhead but I do pay attention, I’ve had things you tried to teach me in my first few weeks suddenly click ages later, a lot of it was stuff that is second nature to you but meant almost nothing to me at the time (remember, Eve is pretty much my first video game so I didn’t have any background to go on with a lot of stuff). Do you remember giving Brave and I each a Sunesis? It took me a few days to figure out that it was even a ship, I thought it was something to do with the station we lived in, it took me a month to dare to fit it, I thought I might break something. I named her Royal Snit and she very quickly became my very favorite ship. I had her for over a year and went everywhere and tried things that were way beyond what I should have been doing. I got her down to between 3% to 8% hull countless times and yet somehow got out of it. The time she went down to 3% I was in a combat site I shouldn’t have been in fighting drones, I escaped with 300m isk in fancy drone modules (I almost died of happiness from that) which I added to her and made my drones so powerful and fast I could do even harder sites.
Then, one fine day I saw something in space called “A Demonstration” and it demonstrated to me that I was in the wrong place to be warping to zero. It wasn’t a fine day any more and I still miss that ship.
Anyhow, I’m sort of off topic so I will shut the hell up, but thank you for Royal Snit, she was awesome.

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Is that better?

grafik

This is actually pretty cool - simple and elegant. Some legit warfare tactics might get dumpstered - like running up timers to slow down the offense, but I guess that’ a reasonable sacrifice.
Most of other features in this pic are obsolete, I’d say - already commented on them before.

One more question. You’re watching a stage play. A banquet is in progress. The guests are enjoying an appetizer of raw oysters. The entree consists of boiled dog… :smiley:

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But you’re not helping.
What’d ya mean I’m not helping?!

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ah yes recaptcha in eve :/.
love it
definitely not buying omega with isk if that happens

so… summed up its FW for multibox accounts and crap on the rest? As a solo player its already hard to dodge the gang bang groups, this changes would probably make me quit FW entirely. A spot easly filled with some1 multibox another account i’m sure.

Yup pretty much.
Multiboxing has a negative impact on the entire game but is especially visible in FW.

If you are in Calgal lowsec, I hear ya, but Amamin isa lot more solo-conducive, but keep in mind that there is more bliny stuff there too.

BUMP for this because FW does need to be looked at!

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MAKE FW GREAT AGAIN !!

Thank you Savros,

All good changes,

Frontlines is especially needed, and Ive been moaning about it for the last 5 years …

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HELLO, I was watching WF activities withheld, when I started the game I did it actively, now that I am in a null corporation I go there from time to time. However, I must say that the WF is very dirty, full of cheats, for me it is fine, but something makes me noise, the trap also reaches those who are from the same faction, when there are few places to get PLEX, there, They kill each other, how are the statuses handled? The latter between to see the WF movement and practically killed each other from the same faction for a place or for pleasure, they should put more sentences to control that or something similar. Thanks greetings.

I think I just got an EVrEction from reading that.
Agree with pretty much everything, although I think the numbers are off (likely more of an idea).


with what Andrew Kouva said

whilst allowing MWDs as someone else mentioned (sorry for not remembering who).


Addressing 2 points here:

I believe the following could be an idea building on what you said (the values are for visualization):
FW Tier ---- LP Payout ------ LP Store LP for ISK exchange
T1 ------------- 50% ---------------- 1000 LP = 700k ISK
T2 ------------- 75% --------------- 1000 LP = 600k ISK
T3 ------------- 100% -------------- 1000 LP = 500k ISK
T4 ------------- 125% -------------- 1000 LP = 400k ISK
T5 ------------- 150% -------------- 1000 LP = 300k ISK
(while keeping the rest of the LP Store untouched by Tier level)

Could allowing a bit more ISK per LP at a lower Tier in your suggestion maybe allow for a bit of balance incentivizing those fighting from a lower Tier to make the ISK into more ships to throw at the war effort?
The percentage of LP payout would have to remain substantial, where the ISK change would not balance out, rather “ease the blow”. The bottom line would pretty much remain the same. Being in a higher Tier would make the items on the LP Store a more viable reward, and lower Tier gravitate towards the ISK exchange.
Although I would like to see values above which would prevent this from being neither exploited nor redundant.

Also, I have a feeling this is implied, but just in case:

should probably be one of those RNG drops and not every single Plex-defending NPC.


The numbers in that section need to be way lower, although the rank bonus should grow exponentially:
Rank 1 –– +0.0% LP Rewards
Rank 2 -– +0.2% LP Rewards
Rank 3 -– +0.5% LP Rewards
Rank 4 -– +0.9% LP Rewards
………
Rank 8 -– +4.0% LP Rewards
Rank 9 -– +5.3% LP Rewards
Rank 10 – +7.0% LP Rewards
(values are an example)

Also your suggestion would really incentivize commitment tying nicely into the Militia roleplay.


Not super keen on this. I see both an argument for and against this.
I mean, if the Neutral wants to let people use their station, they should have the right to, regardless of an ongoing war. Their risk is that one side may not want them to have a station there anymore as a strategic move.
At the same time, if Gall/Min wants a “safe” dock in Cal/Amarr territory they should win the system and put up their own.


Super! but maybe only from any bonus % above the base LP.
For example: being at war at Tier 1 will not yield Corp/Alliance LP tax at all. You want to tax LP , make your Capsuleers fight harder.


Dude, you brought up a lot of awesome points, but it is getting maaad late.
I really hope your post reaches the @CCP (whichever one deals with this) to be in the least considered.
Although some improvements have come over the years, there is still a lot of love missing in such an awesome area of EVE.

Hey Moriar,
@Moriar_theChosen
I begin to read this thread carefully yesterday . i am not done yet… i had seen that poster you sent first one i couldnt read , and i see now you seny another link… but both does not work …

I had a solution idea that i shared with Suitonia couple of months ago … and actually can be very effective . on that poster Number 2 seems like touching from edge … if you know can you please explain and write the sentence here in nr 2 . I need to know what he is saying there detailed.

After that i might make a new thread or just share it here depend on content .
Blue.

I never engaged in the Faction Warfare with my main character though, I experienced some FW contents with my alts a while ago.
Mainly I had focused on ISK making in LP. ( It was before the ships build cost change)
Base mechanics themselves seemed so outdated, more than anything, the standing loss and the lack of lore were the reasson I didn’t settle in FW.
IIRC when we get promoted, gaining standing bonus to the belonging faction. At the same time losing the standing the opponent faction standings was pretty much irritating.
And if we enter the hostile nations systems, we get warned with system wide message though, don’t get any applause message from belonging and allied faction on entering their systems.
I believe, at least getting such message based on the rank in friendly systems, it would have motivated me much more.

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Bumping

be careful what you wish for and don’t blame CCP for this one, fw players begged for this cancerous meta and got what they asked for. The last major changes to FW were introduced to “drive the farmers out of the warzone” and make it more pvp oriented but it had the exact opposite effect as often happens when you mess with the sandbox. They buffed npc’s and made them respawn multiple times because players were angry about new bro’s being able to farm as much lp in cheap frigates as they could in pvp ships even though they weren’t staying for the “gf’s”. imo month old players in poorly skilled frigates should be forgiven for doing whatever it takes to survive and run clocks instead of dying over and over again in fights they can’t possibly win, this for me has always been a legitimate part of faction war. when i was new i viewed it as a form of guerilla warfare; instead of going toe to toe with a superior foe you hit him where he’s weak and run. as a new player i couldn’t win fights but if i could get some angry bitter to undock in his rage fit triple point pirate frigate and spend hours chasing me around and embarrassing himself talking rubbish in local that means he’s not out doing useful things for his faction in the warzone, instead he’s achieving nothing and getting demoralized in the process, that for me was a form of pvp and a small contribution to the war effort, running timers was also a contribution and getting lp was a fair reward for my time.

Anyway CCP got together with the greatest minds in Galmil and the biggest try hards in Calmil to stop the scourge of new bro’s getting lp in faction war and they came up with the fool proof idea of buffing the rats and making them spawn multiple times. such a great idea: instead of farming in cheap frigates they would now have to use cheap destroyers! for some mysterious unforeseeable reason it did nothing to stop the LP farming, BUT if you are an actual player and you want to be able to run sites and get some fights at the same time you now have to fit according to the tank and tactics of the rats. I don’t want to be shoe horned into flying long range high dps fits that have niche pvp engagement profiles but you made it painful to run sites in pure pvp fits. lots of great pvp fits are impossible or just plain awkward to use in faction war now, using a low dps light missile condor means you can only run novices and even then you’ll spend most of your time killing npc’s and trying not to glitch them out with your mwd. even fits that still technically work like a brawling merlin are just painful to use: imagine being in a busy pvp system and you’re having to ab back and forward between the beacon and the rat spawn spamming d-scan incase you get caught off the warp in.

Well it sounds like you managed to stop those greedy new bro’s from taking all your precious LP in their poorly fit frigates, you absolute winners. I hope the bots take over, if i could find the guys running them i’d shake their hands :grinning:

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What if, instead of warp disrupting rats, PLEX reset timers to 0% progress if you warp off from site during capture? That will make that most capsuleers, who really want to farm LP’s, to stay and fight for the reward.

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Both of these solutions are extreme and in my opinion excessive.

Decisions to leave a complex are not always about non-interactive farming play. Sometimes you just do not have the force to take on the enemy.

  • Pointing NPC’s promotes kite fittings and styles over brawling (adding to an existing imbalance).
  • Resetting timers to zero on warp out is unreasonable. I cannot take another fight if I need to get repairs before my next solo PvP.

These two proposals are too heavy handed.

What should happen is to utilise the timer rollback solution, that has been on the table since 2014. Dual timers might work but does not impact the farmer.


The key to reducing the affect of ‘farmers’ who do not interact (and the bots) is twofold.

  1. Reduce the payout of of LP at higher tiers
  2. Increase the population of FW by designing a better Militia Career Path

No. 1 is simply achieved with 30s of coding by changing 5 integers in the existing code.

No. 2 is achieved with much more difficulty.

  • Fix the LP store (more desirables across each faction and some balancing)
  • Fix ranks
  • Tie rewards in the LP Store to new rank system.
  • Ranks should be achieved from a multi-faceted set of accomplishments (ihub bashes, kills, Victory points (ie complex’s completed) and length of service in the Militia).
  • Leave your militia and your rank resets.

If you make it possible to select a Militia career and make it worth staying, the lack of real fighters on each side would be remedied.

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