Is there going to be any changes to the HAC’s or is the ADC the only thing there doing for the class?
As CCP Rise said, not this month.
thank you elitatwo 
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oke here is the thing … i think fleet of arti wolf will be replacing the arti cancer claws
Not unless Claws lose their nullification. The main reason Claws are currently used is not their speed, firepower, etc - those things are required for their role, sure, but the key advantage is that you can’t stop them from going wherever they want. The Wolf doesn’t have that advantage, and it doesn’t matter how much better its raw combat stats are if you can just stop them by putting a sufficiently large bubblecamp in the way.
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The Retributtion still seems like a dog. Less so now that the capacitor buff has alleviated some of the cap stress,. It seems like it’s forced into a buffer / mwd / disruptor role but without the speed to back it up. With beams it sorely misses the tracking bonus it used to have.
Am I missing something? I was REALLY hoping that the Retri would get a pass that made it a viable platform for going out and doing something solo feasibly. It still seems like it’s the worst AF by a large margin. I mean one of them has to be the worst but jeez.
"note: We want to express condolences to projectile Jaguar lovers. There weren’t many of you but we do care about you. We feel that having both weapon systems represented here brings more value than the heavy overlap between two projectile options, especially considering the popularity of the Breacher. We hope you grow to love the new Jag or it’s speedy brother the Wolf. "
why would u think that . its like going against the whole community .
no one asked jaguar to give missile bonus.
i do not understand why would small drones needed tracking bonus .as its prolly gonna shoot another frig in short range.
retribution . removing traking bonus from turrets where its needed in 2 mid ships and giving to drones … whats the idea behind it …
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I’m excited by the changes overall. AFs have been painfully slow for a long time, and the extra cap will definitely help too. A few items:
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Have you looked at the fitting for any other AFs? The Hawk in particular has always been tight on CPU.
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I like the individual changes to the Ishkur, Retribution, and Jaguar. They’re now much more in line with other T1 and T2 racial hulls.
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I like the idea of the ADC: use it while approaching a larger target and your transversal is low to avoid being blapped, then hug them under their guns to keep them tackled and/or apply damage. I can see some other use cases for it too, (especially in PvE), but I don’t think it will be any kind of magic cure-all to make AFs and HACs more desirable than T3s. Can you consider giving it some sort of other active and/or passive attribute? For example, a small passive cap resistance coupled with a significant active cap resistance would fit nicely within the use case I provided above, while also providing a unique utility to AFs and HACs all the time (i.e. anti-capacitor warfare).
Thanks! I’ve always had a soft spot for AFs. I may have to re-sub just to try these out.
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I’m sorry but the new Jaguar is absolutely terrible. It has pitiful dps, no matter how you fit it, and is basically inferior to the Hawk in just about every way but velocity. It’s literally a Breacher with more tank, except it does less dps than a Breacher because the Breacher has 2 light drones. The dps is the only problem with the new Jag. But 140-150 dps, heated, with T2 damage ammo, is extremely poor. It needs either a 4th rocket launcher, or the bonus to rate of fire increased.
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There is 0 chance a jag could beat a hawk in a 1v1, even if the jag tried to kite the hawk it will sling shot it easily.
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i m not sure how could u be happy with the propose changes. have u tried fiting one?
not just jug, retribution too
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Simple fixes i’ve noticed from what you’ve put out here and from what the community has posted thus far:
-Jaguar needs more dps; simplest solution would be to give it a drone bay. 15/20 as on the comet would be exceptionally good, as it would make it competitive and have a great deal of utility.
-Wolf really needs to either move a high or a low into the mid slot. While the dps on it is stellar, it has an awful time applying it, or fitting it if you’re doing arty. Moving the high and losing the utlity slot would be in-line with Boundless Creations’ one dimensional theme of ‘if brute force doesn’t work, you’re not using enough of it’. The addition of a mid slot and some extra power grid would make it an exceptionally better ship all-around, and would help it become the favored t2 frig for solo/small gang roaming.
-I have to say i’m disappointed at the absence of the Vengeance on here. A good upgrade for it would be to roll the cap bonus into the ship itself, and give it a range bonus like the sacrilege gets, as well as pushing up the powergrid a bit to (at the very least) match the Punisher. A few drones definitely wouldn’t hurt either.
-Caldari AFs need their fitting looked at, namely their CPU. Your changes to the Jaguar might be passable if you changed the hawk’s shield boost bonus to resists, and dropped a high for a low on it. It would give it good parity with the others, and still retain its reputation as an exceptional tank frigate.
-Ishkur tracking speed for drones bonuses is functionally useless. Why not give it a drone range bonus like the Ishtar gets, albeit lessened? You could see some very interesting sniper setups since it can use rails reasonably well.
-Retribution push is in the right direction, but change out the RoF bonus for another damage bonus like the Wolf gets, and give it even more capacitor and powergrid to work with. Beams are hard.
-Enyo looks good
-Harpy needs more fitting space
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Sure, for the same class of ship. Frigates and Destroyers are not the same class of ship.
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Unfortunately.
That’s why I’m for the removal of t3s altogether. They serve no purpose but outclassing every other ship in the game with no tradeoffs.
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After looked through all the post I found it important to actually define what AF should do.
Do we need a hard tackle that provide higher DPS, have better EHP but slower and do not have bubble immune? - No. It will not work in fleet, neither in small gang. Interceptors are still going to be the choice for tackle.
Do we need a DPS provider with good resist, fast speed and small sig? Probably Yes but we have T3D now and AF cannot compete with Jackdaw, and AF does not do that much of DPS.
Do we need a Frigate size solo ship with a win button over other frigs? Um… I will say no, someone might say yes. With the new speed it should be able to take down other frigs and destroyers, and maybe some cruisers. This might open the option for 0.0 solo. However not all the AF are equally good for solo role, especially those with 2 mids.
I am now kind of confused about the role of AF.
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CCP doesn’t know either.
Or t3s wouldn’t be the be all end all.
AF’s seems to be the balanced version of T3D’s as T3D’s are actually quite slow and if you move them out of defense mode to speed mode they become quite a bit less tanky, @Catherine_Laartii had great suggestions and if those are implemented AF’s would fit that balanced roll nicely, but for that AF’s would need to do more dps,speed,tank than when T3D’s are in other modes having overall higher stat’s but T3D’s will have more stats on the mode they have selected at the time (specialization) hence why dps is such a problem with the jag as it’s no where near jackdaw dps while its out of damage mode.
For the ishkur I’d swap the drone tracking for a drone speed bonus, this will allow it to be better vs kitey stuff.
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I agree drone spd sounds better.
However I doubt if ccp will make AF do more dps than T3D in non-sharpshoot mode.
That means light missile have to have 200+ dps and close range blasters 430+, cold.
This will threat T1 cruisers with the current speed and new ADC.
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