Flatten EHP curve

Let’s see how HP multiply between ship classes:

Destroyer = x2 Frigate
Cruiser/Attack Battlecruiser = x2 Destroyer
Combat Battlecruiser = x2 Cruiser
Battleship = x2 Battlecruiser
Carrier = x8 Battleship
Dreadnought/FAx = x2 Carrier
Mothership = x3 Dreadnought/FAx
Titan = x1,3 Mothership

We have a large gap between Battleships and Carries. I suggest flattening it by increasing Battleship HP by factor of 2.
So it will be
Battleship = x4 Battlecruiser
Carrier = x4 Battleship
This is not ideal but better than current progression.

Now is best time to do this (fiercely looking at industry changes)

About cost

“Jita” prices

Destroyer = x4 Frigate
Cruiser/Attack Battlecruiser = x4 Destroyer
Combat Battlecruiser = x4 Cruiser
Battleship = x5.5 Battlecruiser
Carrier = x11 Battleship
Dreadnought/FAx = x1 Carrier
Mothership = x10 Dreadnought/FAx and unreliable
Titan = I dunno

I expect that Battleship buff will push it’s price a bit up so we’ll see something like
Battleship = x8 Battlecruiser (30-40% more than now)
Carrier = x8 Battleship
If not than some extra Industry changes should be done

PS I realize that this is NOT how balance is done :slight_smile:. Just some crazy ideas floating around.
PPS Behold the beauty of 2^n!!!


We can instead nerf capitals HP by factor of 2 (and motherships even more)
Inspired by Shipwreck Jones

Destroyer = x2 Frigate
Cruiser/Attack Battlecruiser = x2 Destroyer
Combat Battlecruiser = x2 Cruiser
Battleship = x2 Battlecruiser
Carrier = x4 Battleship
Dreadnought/FAx = x2 Carrier
Mothership = x2 Dreadnought/FAx
Titan = x2 Mothership

Yes, please give my Golem twice the EHP it has now…

I’m wet.

If you’re going to flatten the curve, wouldn’t the obvious solution be to bring capital EHP’s in line (and update their build material requirements in order to reflect the change)? Instead, you’ve used it to justify a buff for battleship HP’s.

And no, I don’t care if everything is mathematically pleasing when it comes to game balance. What I care about is how it works in practice.
No P2W

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That’s even better!!11
Null blocks will newer allow this :sadparrot:

PS balance actually is mostly about math. If math looks pleasing balance is probably good. If math looks unpleasing balance is likely bad.

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Are you worried about the soft feeling of null resident? How sensible.

If you mean without consideration for all aspects involved, like for example the other stats, cost and SP required, special limitation of the ships involved then you are correct, that is definitely NOT how balance is done.

But I’m still wet with the idea of a marauder/blackops with twice the EHP.

New Meta, Grappler fit Buffers
I fear that EHP would make battleships insanely OP.

Carriers on the other hand die easily. I speak from experience.
EHP doesn’t matter that much since they can be defanged easily.

Increasing base HP will not change flat HP from modules. It will not change active tank also.
Super tanky fils will benefit from this change less than others.

What I expect to change is EHP-oriented places like blob-fleets (AFAIK there are HAC’s everywhere).

Also I expect less shield-tanked armor BShips (or vice versa).

PS IMO Battleships deserve to be OP for some time… not pirate ones just common and navy ones.

The term apples to oranges comes to mind.

Aside from your misplaced ocd why does this change need to exist?

Think about it like marauders boost for poor
Just crazy idea that may or may not be good

More serious reasoning… I can find some arguments.

  1. Healthier subcapital vs capital balance. Capital Ships Online was bad
  2. Small “Indirect” Navy battleships boost (They have ~1.5 HP of T1 while Pirate have ~1.35 HP of T1). This may make them good to be used outside of corner cases.
  3. No battleship on steroids T2 class like HAC for cruisers and Command ships for Battlecruisers.

Destroyer = x1.5 Frigate
Cruiser/Attack Battlecruiser = x1.5 Destroyer
Combat Battlecruiser = x1.5 Cruiser
Battleship = x1.5 Battlecruiser
Carrier = x1.5 Battleship**
Dreadnought/FAx = x1.5 Carrier
Mothership = x1.5 Dreadnought/FAx
Titan = x1.5 Mothership

This is what I would like to see.

eve is not nor has it ever been outside of marketing. The vast majority of fights are done in sub caps and the majority of capital usage is in support of sub cap fleets.

Carriers and supers are useless against a sub cap fleet do to their vulnerability to ECM and dreads can’t do piss unless they want to leave themselfs open to being counter dropped. Honestly capitals are in a pretty healthy place right now. The only area you could argue they are not is defensive umbrellas but those take a lot of work to set up and maintain so that’s already balanced when you actually look at the macro scale and not just “my 3 man gang can’t gank a goon rorq”

likewise even if your goal was to improve the usage of sub caps over capitals EHP isn’t the issue. The advantage capitals have is in DPS being able to overwhelm sub cap logi or negate sub cap DPS with far fewer ships.

The disconnect between BS and ‘capitals’ in this game has always been a huge point of annoyance for me. Sorry CCP, I don’t care how much pickled shark you’ve eaten, a battleship is a capital ship.

I’d be perfectly happy to see BS bumped up to capital status properly, and the rest of the ships slide up the scale to have enough comfortable elbow room. Granted, I’d also do a lot of other tinkering with inter-class balance, too, like a bit more distinction between cruisers, BCs, and Tech 3’s.

But yes, I’m always going to be on board with bringing BS EHP up, Carrier EHP down, and leave dreads where they are, more or less, so they can kill both.

You… you realize that qualification is entirely based on a ship relative to others right?

So while battleships were capital ships on 20th century earth that doesn’t mean they just get that term permanently. That would be like saying carriers were capital ships so all carriers are when that’s not even true of modern navies.

A capital ship is the most important ship class in a militaries navy and what it’s doctrine is built around. That’s why many classes have held the title. By the end of the mid 20th battleships lost their title of capital ship and it was given to carriers.

Now we have the in game term and as with most fiction it warps them a bit. Being a Sci fy setting it uses the trop of a capital ship being a divide based more on function and size. As opposed to military role or importance. What makes a ship a capital in eve is how its constructed more than anything else.

Battleships are capital ships. Thank you for confirming.

in what way?

Size and function and CCP arbitrarily deciding that a battleship is gonna be randomly not built out of capital components, while a carrier is.

There is literally no reason for it but for CCP’s random, arbitrary decision.

So, thanks for confirming the issue is CCP’s bad decision making, not anything to do with the ships.

The function of a BB isn’t the same as most capital ships. and outside of a single subset they don’t have a jump drive something found in every combat capital and only missing from two non combat capital ships.

they also were added to the game well before capital ships were. Their damage, tank, fitting, requirements and weapon application are all balanced around sub capital combat.

You are doing literally nothing to advance your argument other than continuing to confirm that the issue is CCP being bad at consistent balance.

‘Oh no, they added actual capital components after the fact and didn’t adjust them.’

Also, Bowhead, Orca, freighters. 3 non-combat capitals.

And BLops have a jump drive of their own, too. Sooooo… yeah, your consistency is falling apart even more.

Battleships are capital ships. Always have been, and always will be.


you forget to train reading comp?

are bowheads not classed as freighters? because im pretty sure that’s just the name of the ore freighter.