Fleet Formations

Please enjoy a nice discussion on the subject.

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Looks great, Fluff is always nice.

Please do a blog on your plans to add a counter to cloaky camping next.

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Hi there, I am curious will it still be possible to have fleets warp in as a ball / clump as they currently do or will formations be the norm going forward? Many thanks.

Awesome! Now all they need is a purpose other than looking pretty.

Waaaaitt… Custom Formations? Like… spelling out words?

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“Commander! Enemy forces arriving on grid. They appear to be using…the Katamari Damacy formation!”

“May God have mercy on us all…”

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Nice!

Blob, should be a default formation.

Also “Arrow” should be called “Feeding” formation.

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Can we design our own formations?

Yes we know where this goes :smirk:

Having only presets makes it easy to predict the landing spot and counter

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Dill-dozer formation.

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If the Fleet Formation can have some buff and debuff it would be great.
Just like other strategy games, like Total War, different formations with respective buffs/bonuses can provide tactical advantages on the battlefield.
Otherwise, it just looks cooler. When real fleet fight engaged, still a “line formation”. There are always people in behind.
To keep the formation. We could have some items for the commander to engage so that player can auto-pilot and follow the commander and keep the formation. The commander is in charge of the whole fleet movement.

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Oh well, another meme take off the meme list CCP has been working down since Blackout. How many more memes are left on the list?

And it’s even just pointless fluff because, judging by yet another bloglette devoid of information, you can’t even give individual ships individual positions in for formation.

weapon to wield on the battlefield!

Soon, fleets will be able to arrive at a location from warp

What is it now? Can you use them on the battlefield or only in warp? Could CCP be clear in at least one thing in this bloglette?

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“There will be an additional Relative (custom) formation option”
Plane formation of 256 Battleships, all 100KM appart.

I remember the hardest formation of enemy fleet in the Homeworld for me to defeat was actually a sphere.
The shape of it made it so dangerous, as the ships were really close to each other and could deal damage a lot more efficient in all directions.

With current blob in EVE is the same situation I think. Same ships dealing damage on the same optimal and moving together with logis, so they can all rep eachother.

A sphere is really a flacid cube, so borg cube is best formation, perhaps a hypercube for overpowering, even cube the movie was deadly

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Have not watched the live stream by CCP Rise but was excited by the idea. It would open up more options for commanders.
Here are some thoughts and personal worries:

  1. In the News post the “Custom” formation was achieved with recording the relative position of feet members. I would suggest using a 3D tactical UI similar to the scan probe, which allows the fleet commander to allocate each wing and squad on the grid. At the same time, for each layer (Fleet, Wing, Squad) there should be an option to choose from the given formation (point, wall, plane etc. etc.) or custom. This has the following benefits: First, it saves time, especially for slower and heavier fleets like battleships. Then, it allows later joined members, people who refit to other roles, or combined fleets to form up much easier by just getting in to the correct wing/squad of your ship role. Finally, it is easier for the fleet commander to assign the direction of “forward”, and avoid some of the issues below about should we allow certain tactics.

  2. We should probably think very carefully about how much “Forward” can the most front member of the fleet can be, relative to the “Original warp exit point”. It would be very amusing if a bomber squad can land around the warp exit point with a radius of 30 km, but it also means the fleet could use the same tactic to get tacklers 30km head of the initial position of a scanned downed kiting ship. The distance of how much forward can it be should therefore carefully judged.

  3. Similarly, how much backward of the most backward ship can land should also be carefully determined. As the current max warp landing distance is 100km, is it going to be possible with the customized fleet landing to allow landing 150km+ from the warp exit?

Really looking forward to this new feature and see how it will be achieved!

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Despite all the fantasizing about the possibilities of this kind of change I think there will be a lot of expected negatives.

Bad implementation, bugs and exploits that will need to be modified, fixed and buffed/nerfed continuously over a longer period of time as players adjust to the changes and figure out what works best, doesn’t work at all or is just broken all around.

Burnout from people having to throw away many other existing strategies and doctrines established from enormous amounts of time and effort over the game’s history, based on these changes forcing them to spend unlimited amounts of time and effort to learn everything over again and that they can about these changes instead so they don’t fail simply because they have not invested as much in figuring out the best way to abuse these new changes to their best advantage versus others who haven’t yet.

Conflict/interference of these changes making other mechanics and even modules, fits, types of ships they use completely useless because they can be replaced or countered by using these new fleet formation mechanics OR other mechanics already in the game making fleet formations irrelevant or just plain nonsense.

Either way whatever the chances that this could all become something good in the end I have serious doubts just based on the comparison to how the developers understand the game versus players and their historical record with making extreme changes to the game and how players will receive them.

I seriously doubt they have thought this through as much as players will have to and are going to and this is more or less an idea based on “what if…?” and let’s see what players do with it.

So my thinking is this all really depends on players reception of the changes and their abilities to make them useful or not because maybe they will receive it badly and just get frustrated having to figure out too much in too little time and in the end it will just be another idea that in theory could be great but in practical reality gets pushed on players too harshly that they won’t want to deal with it.

There is obviously a lot more to it and only those who have to figure all this out will be the biggest factor but these are a few thoughts that instantly come to mind with very little effort. I’ll let those with more time and patience figure out how good this all really will be for us as players.

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Thanks for the reply. I think I pretty much agree with you, but I’m on the bit optimistic side XD.

Yes I am 100% sure there will be. So that’s why I wrote this post just to point out a few things that comes to my mind and worries me.

I think the old warping style would still work and more dedicated and creative FC would benefit from the new tools. That being said, serious exploit should be avoided and there have to be inputs from real world FCs in this. We need to warn CCP about obvious exploits. Again a reason why I started this thread.

Agree, serious problem. That’s typical change logic of CCP for many years.
However I see potential and embrace this feature, as this is pretty much the only new thing that have the potential to change the fleet fight for quite some time. A so-called “new game play element” that wasn’t there for a long time.

Although CCP does not have a history of fixing stuff before implementing, for such a big change I would strongly suggest that anyone who see obvious exploits to state them here or on reddit. Should help.

Yes, very optimistic though considering the game has a long running history of the most established groups constantly seeking any way to cheat or exploit the game to their advantage in competition with one another. Some will want to point out the bad but I think most will only try to use it against one another will be the more natural response to finding such exploits and abusing them. So it will be up to CCP to implement changes based on what they see more than getting help from most players finding them.

Yes, I am very cynical when it comes to stuff like this. Wishful thinking has not left any great impressions on me from my observation and experience of it.

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Thanks, critics are equally valuable, if not even more valuable when it comes to significant changes :slight_smile:

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Another thought. When CCP see how much work players put into figuring out these new changes and finding work that needs to be done how much work are CCP willing to put into a change that more or less came to them as a theory to test out as opposed to trying to make more work for themselves.

This can be another determining factor as to whether or not it succeeds even after everything else working out on the players’ end of things. CCP might not want to keep it in the game if it means having to put as much time and effort into it themselves as players will when they only really wanted to put the idea into play and let players figure out the rest.

We all have our limits.