well then he just buys tons of other ships dont need to be titans but i think u get my point!
with enough rl money i can have a endless support of stuff, gonna buy everything to beat my enemys 
the guy who has to work hard for just one ship will say damn this sucks i cant win against this and quit the game and the rich guy says, yaaay i won, time to buy even more stuff!
sure ccp says awesome but i think the majority of the player base will hate something like this.
Well a lot of them do hate it but we play anyway.
For me it adds to the challenge level.
Raising the 10m for my ■■■■ fit Arbitrator is much easier x20 that replacing that Nestor I can kill in the rich man’s fleet if I do it at exactly the right time.
16 years and I still can’t believe people don’t understand this, and still get upset about it.
Since every skill caps at level 5, there is a ceiling on the “power level” a player has when flying a ship (excluding things like modules, where ISK comes into play and, now, an RNG enchantment mechanic via Mutaplasmids). So it’s entirely possible and relatively trivial to “catch up” to a player in regard to a ship class. For example, someone who’s all maxed out at flying a Jaguar. You, too, can become all maxed out at flying an Enyo, in a relatively short period of time.
Now, this other player might be maxed out in Jaguar and Munins. What they have there are options open to them by having higher SP. But a Munin isn’t necessarily more powerful than an Enyo. I’m sure an Enyo could kill a Munin if it got a web and scram on it and defeated it’s tracking.
So no, not “P2W” because being able to fly one ship over another, except in certain cases, is not really an “advantage” or “winning”.
Eve’s not Pay to Win…it’s just boring…
WATCH UR LANGUAGE YOUNG MAN!! 
what did they win
12 years of playing and I still can’t believe P2W players are lieing about this.
There is a skill cap of 5 in a single skill, yes. And then there are many skills. And many of those skills synergistically support your build and your other skills. And level 5 is quite slow to reach. And reaching level 5 often unlocks the next set of skills you can use to increase your ability. And having level 5 in enough skills to support different builds and different ships means you can quickly reship into the best build for the current job. And buying ISK means you can own all those ships. And you can buy ISK to own all the best modules for those ships. And you can buy ISK to put the best implants in your head to boost each of those ships. And with buying skills, and buying implants, you can even buy more jump clones to put different sets of implants into for different purposes.
But yeah, you’re right. There is no P2W. Only player skill.
How are they lying? Everything you list is obtainable through normal gameplay over time as well as through forking cash, beyond the cost of a sub, over to CCP.
The difference being that the people who spend time over cash have often gained experience during that time, whereas the people that hand over cash generally haven’t.
Being successful in Eve is not just about what you have, it’s also about how you use what you have; experience allows the player to use what they have effectively, money can’t buy that, only time can.
If people wish to spend RL cash in the pursuit of progression and shiny stuff that’s fine, it makes them the butt of much humour when they discover that, despite the depth of their wallet, someone who has invested time can still kick their arse.
Like that guy earlier losing two blingy navy ravens in a row to easily avoidable ganks.
Silly pilot.
I agree with your post (oddly), and am actually fine with all the P2W aspects of EVE. I’m only against trying to pretend that “well hey get a couple skills up to 5 and you’re a match for vets, no problem!” is the reality of EVE. Quotes like:
are just pure and utter BS.
If it were up to me I would add even more and varied ways to pay to catch up/get ahead in EVE. And also to play to catch up/get ahead. The difference with my approach would be that those methods would tilt the field towards new players - the current system favors older/experienced/longer paying/higher paying players in every way.
The emphasis being on bringing new players up to competitive speed more quickly. As it is, anyone with half a brain starts playing, and figures out within the first 2 weeks (or first 2 hours) that the game is totally rigged against new players… and they quit. It doesn’t take genius to read the player activity charts for the past 8 years and draw the correct conclusions.
Longer-term players already have the major advantage of knowing the game better, having more experience, having more resources and connections in the game. Pretending that new players can ‘catch up’ in a ‘relatively trivial’ amount of time/effort simply sweeps a major problem with EVE’s game design under the rug. And that rugs’ already getting pretty lumpy…
Actually they’re not, it is entirely possible to catch up in regards to a ship class, especially in terms of applicable SP, that statement is mainly applicable to ship classes up to and including Battleships.
What isn’t possible is to catch up on the experience necessary to use those ships effectively; that comes with time alone, not money.
Nice argument.
Just kidding, you had no argument, you just repeated your same incorrect assertions from before.
Players don’t quit the game because of SP, they quit because EVE, by yourself, is dreadfully boring. Organizations like GoonSwarm and TEST are successful (and large) because they recruited from pre-existing communities, with established culture. Not because they all got SP boosts (they didn’t because there was no such thing back then).
No clue what you’re talking about here, since I never mentioned anything about players quitting due to a lack of SP. Quitting because the game is rigged against them, yes. That’s more about unfair / uninteresting competition than about lack of SP. Quitting because EVE is generally poorly designed and boring to play, sure, that too.
As far as the ‘no argument’ thing goes, apparently you just didn’t bother or refuse to understand the previous post. Or maybe your reading comprehension isn’t that good.
Here’s what I consider a ‘good foundation’ skill plan for a new player; pick up some trade skills, some drone skills, some gunnery skills, some missile skills, targeting, shield skills, armor skills, engineering skills, navigation skills. Toss in some scanning skills so you can do some exploration between other activities, and of course some Spaceship Command skills so you can fly some decent ships (frigates through BS, nothing fancy). A few key skills have to go to V (Drones, Hull, Mechanics, CPU Mngmt, Power Grid Mngmt, Weapon Upgrades). The rest go to IV or III.
Even a fairly minimal ‘good foundation’ set of skills like that takes about 8 million SP. It’s going to take a new Omega player about 5 months to get there, and he will still be well behind on many support, efficiency and fitting skills. A new Alpha player of course will be more than a year just getting there.
So perhaps by ‘relatively trivial’ you mean “I’ve been in the game for 10 years, they can get to a decent starting position in a year or less, that’s trivial”. I can assure you however, that to the new player starting up, that doesn’t look ‘trivial’ at all.
No time to really get into this cuz I’m griefing carebears I MEAN, providing content.
You said players quit because EVE is rigged against new players - in the context of a discussion regarding skillpoints. I think it’s pretty clear but ok, try to muddy the waters.
The cold hard truth about how eve was never a pay to win game was the moment I was allowed to bootleg npc tobacco across New Eden. So much tobacco was purchased and sold slightly higher back to other npcs in other regions. They referred to me as tobubba yega, they would simply keep selling me the highly sort after tobacco that I was becoming greedy and wanting to cut into others profit margin.
Well after many sleepless nights in a system in Metropolis that is so violent that not even the likes of Arithmos Tyrannos dares to enter, I had decided to ship a cargo of tobacco into hell. I was met with such force that my current clone state has nightmares.
That turned the game for me into needing to buy plex to help calm my tobacco bootlegging addiction.
Now I could tell of other memories though I feel you get the idea.
They’re not gonna stop dissing your point.
Eve turned into Pay to Win with the introduction of Skill Injectors. A Player can create an army of characters, buy PLEX and then sell it to purchase all the necessary skills and equipment needed to quickly achieve within a couple of days what use to take years to do.
And those who keep insisting that experience matters are just selling a load of crap. The Blob always wins.
Yeah I remember being a newbie and not being able to afford a Battlecruiser to run missions (they were like 100 million ISK back then) so I figured I’d build it… I hunted all over HiSec for Zydrine… for weeks. And then one day I learned “Wait I can just buy one for $20 bucks?”
After that I figured out Buddy Invites for PLEX and stuff. It really kickstarted my EVE career but I often miss those early, dark days.
PLEX is a necessary evil. It helps keep RMT at bay.
If its rigged against new players, how come people who started after year 5 are still here?
Year 10?
Last year?
True, it is just needs and wants that change players play style into wanting everything now or set small achievement goals of character advancement over time.
I see plex as something that can save me time on parts of the game I find less fun but are still required to progress at a pace that allows more time to spend doing the things in game that I do find fun and relaxing.
Finding that balance is key o7