I was actually expecting some more along the lines of let me join your corp (or wardec you) and kill you many times, not actual instructions on mechanics.
I am capable of providing those services as well. Just let me know if you require them.
My playtime is somewhat limited these days, however; I may have to sub that job out to service it correctly…
In the mean time, please enjoy the little guide I wrote.
Fantastic guide. The only point I respectfully disagree with is that Lowsec is a bad way to learn PvP. It’s generally not great for learning large scale group tactics imho, but its excellent for 1v1 and extremely small gang(think 4 or less) training. Any PvP is good PvP as far as I’m concerned. Different environments train different skills, but all are useful.
Garresh, your point is well made and I’m not subtle in my bias towards highsec fighting.
You should join the chat room and field some questions. I know you’re knowledgeable in this stuff.
Sounds like a plan. I admittedly have some big holes in my pvp knowledge, but also have some strong specializations I can help with. Plus for all my griefing and internet terrorism I like helping newbros out. I’ll hop in when I’m on tomorrow and help out some.
I found this to be informative. Even answered questions,I had yet to think about. Thank You
Bump for sticky. A lot of great and useful straight information.
Also, Logoffski’s are considered an exploit. Should add a disclaimer of some sort on comment #10.
Gah I keep forgetting to join the channel. I’ll be on soon. I’ve just been tied up with a war lately.
@Mobadder_Thworst I’ve taken the liberty of formatting your nice guide a little to make it easier to navigate through
I appreciate it, it looks much better. I just added some ammo considerations to the guns and missiles sections.
Do you think this thing could get a sticky? I’d like to keep it up for those who can use it.
I’ve request it to be put into the Resources for New Citizen thread
Thanks. Anything I missed? I’d like to make it substantial enough to help more high-sec players participate in PvP.
To me it seems like you pretty much have covered all the important parts, it’s not like you can make a guide that accounts for all possible Scenarios
The formatting changes look fantastic.
Concerning logoff traps, it is something I also heard from another veteran pvp pilot during fleet and was confirmed by more than one voice.
The only other useful thing I would add is how to create an instant warp undock bookmark and that ctrl+B is your friend. That stations shoot you out in any angle shaped like a cone, so finding the vector and flying straight out (farther the better) and creating a bm there gives best results.
Also that you cannot warp to a distant object unless it is at least 150k away, and it must be a valid warp point: jet can, wreck, abandoned drone or fleet member outside of dead space pockets.
Speaking as someone that used to do surgical wardecs in a small group (back when that was a viable playstyle), the most effective counter to us was for your corp to all operate in the same system and have PVP fitted ships on standby (docked).
You’d run missions/mine as usual, then we’d think we had you. We’d lock one of you down and two or three of us would work on breaking their tank - at which point the other six of you all dock and reship into the cheap destroyers you already had fitted, fleet up, and warp to your mate that’s in trouble at our range.
Any strategy that involves fielding large numbers of cheap ships will quickly scare off predators. We tended to use moderately expensive ships to make up for our small numbers, and an engagement where we kill 6 frigates and 9 destroyers, but lose one logistics ship, ends up being a considerable defeat.
One category of wardec the OP’s guide doesn’t mention is anti-structure wardecs. Structures are solid additions to your fleet in their own right, offering exceptional web/scram capabilities and some damage. If you are defending your Citadel, use its guns.
I cannot completely agree with that. I used to love fighting a fleet of cheap ships.
If you look at my KB on 10 Jul, 2011. You will see 12 kills against Sphere Industries in Osvestmunnir. No limit Soldier and I did this.
As I recall, we had several kills on Nolimit’s killboard that were not on mine (his range was much greater than mine), but I think the actual fleet we were fighting was about 25 ships (we didn’t bag any battleships… didn’t have the DPS for it). My memory says we killed 17, I didn’t bother checking his kB to see if it’s different… we didn’t use zkill back then and he hasn’t logged in for years, they may or may not be listed there.
The fight ended when our opponents finally retired from the field.
My compatriot and I fielded a Tengu and Hurricane… we killed 2 falcons, a hound, a myrmidon, 2 hurricanes, a hawk, a kitsune, a bantam, someone’s pod, a prophecy, and a drake. (That’s just what is listed on my kB, I suspect 5 kills to be missing)
The entire fight, we were on the verge of losing our ships. In my opinion, this is how you are supposed to fly. If you aren’t pushing yourself to the edge of what you can do, are you really playing?
They did kill me the next day.
I would never have left Osvest if I thought they would keep fielding that fleet and I’d go back down there today if it was still there.
A concerted effort of trained people would have just killed my ship 3 or 4 times… that’s what it took to get rid of me. I don’t personally believe in deterrence. If you want me gone, beat me.
Simply: “There is no substitute for victory” - D MacArthur.
I don’t know much about structure wardecs in the current system, if there is something that needs to be added, please add it.
I don’t know if speed games (the style of play we used in this fight) are played the same as they were back then, and I consider those techniques to be very challenging for new pvp’ers, but I can cover those if anyone is interested.
It depends on what sort of conflict you’re in really. If its an opportunistic war of the kind where you don’t expect resistance, a cheap but dangerous fleet can shake up the attacker and force a retreat. If they’re looking for goodfights, engaging them may encourage them to attack even harder, because they’re actually getting fun fights from you(even if they lose).
Part of your doctrine choice when dealing with an aggressor is understanding their motivations. That’s basic war 101. Know your enemy better than they know themselves. Both types of attacks are valid playstyles. This is Eve after all. But your response needs to be radically different, especially depending on your OWN motivations. Even if your corp has more bears than Yellowstone, if they were looking to learn PvP then engaging an enemy seeking goodfights may be a sound investment even if it prolongs the war. If they have no interest in PvP, extending it may hemmorhage members.
Read your enemy, and get a feel for your own corp members. Know how morale is, and what drives them.
Edit: Nobody knows a ton about structure wardecs yet outside of dedicated merc outfits and people doing evictions. The average player hasn’t caught up yet from what I’ve seen. Maybe you should outsource to some merc corp to help with structure pvp guidance?
Edit2: While I’m at it, I haven’t been online much lately but that channel has been quiet. If you wanna make a PvP help channel a thing might be worth throwing out a few cans near newb systems and messaging some other PvPers.
Yeah, do you know anyone who has been bagging citadels?
I made that channel for people to use, but I’ve only talked to one person so far.
I’m kind of fading again, but I’d love for that channel (or another) to become an open pvp help channel. I unsubbed the other day, but I can still log in alpha if I need to. I also monitor my in-game email… and I welcome anyone to contact me.
These lessons are the foundation that makes someone digitally dangerous… and we need more people to know and use this stuff.
Any ideas out there would be appreciated. I’d like to see Eve come back to life.
I’m up for any help I can get.
This is inaccurate.
CCP’s stance on log off traps is detailed here, under the “Common Misconceptions” section:
Good to know! Thank you, Sere.