The good fight

Communications Center General Discussion
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I’ve realized in reading some of the posts recently that PvP to me is very different than it is for some, especially those that specialize in fleets.

I wanted to give an idea of the progression of tactics I expect from a skilled player… and perhaps some insight into how (in my mind) Eve became one of the greatest PvP games in history (before venues for this type of engagement were dramatically reduced).

For me, pvp is a very stressful set of moves and countermoves which ultimately ends in a champion and a loser.

I wanted to give an idea of a normal fight progression and the maneuvering I expect from a skilled opponent.

Suppose I was in a Punisher and I was fighting a Hawk. Both with AB builds.

I would typically assume my opponent will open with “orbit at 500” and “turn everything on.” He has a nicer ship… and will win.

I must change.

In order to reduce inbound damage from his rockets and increase damage output from my guns, I would fly a straight line, pulling him out behind me at optimal range or closer (probably if he changes nothing, he’ll end up about 500m behind me). This will make me do 100% damage and his damage to me will be greatly reduced by my speed… I will win.

He must change.

This will make him an easy kill for me, unless he selects “keep at range” and drops out of my range while still peppering me with rockets. While he gains a damage advantage with this maneuver, he works In the outer edge of his scrambler range and risks me getting away.

But I must change and choose to keep fighting or escape.

I can probably pull outside his scrambler range and escape… at this point asking whether I can mitigate the rocket damage enough with speed to continue the engagement is important. If he’s smart enough to follow this maneuver chain, and faster than I am… I may need to escape.

If I’m faster than he is, I’ll select a “keep at range” option near my optimal to keep damage up and transversal of my guns down. If he stays on “keep at range” we will fly in a straight line at max speed again favoring me.

And again, he must change.

If he’s faster, I’ll have already tried slingshotting him by running at him and away… meaning he will have to try to stay closer to me to prevent escape, giving me a chance to try to pull him out into a straight line again.
If I’m faster, he may select to “orbit at 500” to try to drop my speed and out-orbit my gun tracking.

I don’t know how this fight would end… I rarely fight someone who can react this many times.

Notice I didn’t mention officer fit shield modules or all the other crap people talk about in PvP. Most of that stuff just requires me to maneuver a little smarter.

If this sounds like fun, you need to get into small boat PvP.

It’s important for those who aren’t familiar with the logic behind this to see the elegant complexity of these sort of fights. It’s a thinkers game…

A tutorial that explains the basics:
https://forums.eveonline.com/t/free-training-allow-me-to-help-you-or-your-corp-learn-pvp/36794

9 Likes
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You need to join EVE UNI!

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Amazing post, thank you!

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I have noticed previously you are happy with any scraps you can get!

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This is how you make the most of a scrap…

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I am sure that made sense in your head!

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I will rewrite any unclear bits, it’s all very logical.

I wrote on phone, if part needs more explanation please let me know.

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Here is something for you as you seem to be having an issue!

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?

I was legitimately offering a rewrite.

I have tried many times to inspire people to try this type of PvP.

I never explained this before, thought it might be a good read (pending it being readable, of course).

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he’s trolling. it’s fine. he’s a bit weird, but at least not a carebear.

Us Sols are our own people. : - )

You really should post in Features and Ideas instead of here, framing your epic posts as requests.

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Excellent quality post, it is this type of detail that explains the game very well in terms of the nuances of a small ship fight in terms of getting the best out of your ship fit and mitigating their one. It also shows why skilled knowledgeable players are a step above.

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You say you have more speed than him but that wouldn’t be at all the case if he fitted his hawk properly with a web and a blue shield and prob mod (most sane hawk pilots do, it’s just a waste of hull if you dont), and you just have at best a t2 AB and a scram to dictate range with, which is next to none comparatively.

You’re already at a huge disadvantage and wouldn’t be able to pull and mitigate damage from him at all, let alone break his tank, before popping up yourself fast.
Or in the case that you’d ditched the scram beforehand and chose to fit a web yourself, it would make it harder for him yea, but his tank would prevail over yours even with his reduced damage input, and his superior prop would catch up faster anyway. At the very least if he’s terribad player and hasnt figured out your moves, it would allow him an easy escape.

It sure is a nice bit of writing and impression about Eve’s pvp mechanics though, speed is almost everything in this game (not just ship speed, cognitive motor speeds help a fair bit too :D). But, I also think you’re trying to make it seem more complex than it actually is.

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You are correct! and in the spirit of fairness I apologise to the OP as it was all in jest.

See I can be nice! (sometimes!) cough!!

1 Like
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A good read, bookmarked that for references. I am interested in doing stuff in high sec (PVP wise) and am in the process of getting my main characters out of a corp so I can do just that.

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Why would you want to do “pvp” in highsec where nobody else wants to pvp. Is it the “challenge” of shooting at something that doesn’t shoot back - the very difficult kind??
How about you go where everyone wants to murder your ship instead, you know the combat areas where you could accidentally learn something.

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You’re quite the presumptuous type are you ?

People in highsec are free to shoot back when agressed if they want to.

But typically they prefer moaning about it loud enough until pvp effectively only happens in pvp specific zones, far outside their zones of westernized interest and comfort, ie: Welcome to World of WarcrEve.

I’ll throw the presumptions around, this is what you really want for the game deep down don’t you ?

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Not that at all, i could’ve added a whole lot more about “as well as other things” and explained all what those other things were. Reading the link they were talking about high sec, and people defending themselves against wardeccers etc, I thought that maybe a fun “option” therefore mentioned high sec.

i stupidly didn’t consider the sarcastic trolls (like you) that like to talk down to people, my bad. I tell you what though, you play the game the way you want to, and ill do things that I want to, I haven’t got to get your green light to do anything in this game.

2 Likes
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Good for you, Trying other aspects of the game is always good and I hope you suceed or at least have fun.

If you need pointers or help with your choice mail me in game and if I can help I will.

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You’ll sadly find that apparently this is something “some” people are hard at work in pushing on this forum and ingame these days, to have it implemented as a core feature in Eve, and stick everyone in their respective cages …

“Some” people simply despise freedom and creative environments, in any way shape or form.

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Yeah, I chose the absence of webs on both ships to inflate the value of maneuver itself. I felt like it helped make a point that i believe remains valid.

Yes, the hawk would be faster… and the punisher would probably need to escape… but I wanted to show the thought process and how speed related.

I rarely fit webs on shield boats because I value tank so highly. Tank because it buys me time to make these maneuver decisions.

I frequently fit neuts because I can turn off webs with them.

I’m a bit of a purist in my love of eloquence of these interchanges. This thought process allowed me to stop flying specialized builds where I chose to fight only if someone else would enter my designed engagement profile and start flying mid-range boats that could fight anything… but which only win by exploiting maneuver mechanics.

Yeah, its rare to need this much thought. Most people just hit “orbit at 500” and turn their stuff on and watch.

Now and then I find a player who can do this.

I used to fight in high sec, but the mechanics for getting fights there have been gimped so badly that I can no longer recommend it.

I’d say wormhole in a cloak boat or low sec faction space are probably best now, but I’m guessing.

Suspect baiting still works, but even with good maneuver it’s hard. Google “Saturday morning scuffles” if you want to read my last suspect baiting experience.

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