Frig Holes Have to go

I have been living in WH space now for over a year. Frig holes have always been an annoyance but recently they have become a massive burden and are going to push me out of the game. This isn’t an “i’m going to quit post” or anything like that though so I won’t mention that any further. I want to explain why they are bad and beg you guys to talk some sense into these devs that obviously don’t understand the mechanics.

For general krabbing and mining/gas huffing etc these frig holes instantly shut down content. I generally just log off when we have one in our farm hole annoyed because there is not a SINGLE thing I can do to get rid of it. WH space is dangerous enough with out these. We don’t have local, we can’t set up chains of intel that reach out 200 systems wide and provide us ample time to get away from any threat.

We get our systems camped and we get rolled into plenty enough to keep the game dangerous. These hole do nothing but kill content. There are countless ways for enemies to sneak into our holes and set up when we aren’t looking and we never know. This is why I love this space. Frig holes provide none of this.

For pvp and evictions these holes also ruin content. They make it next to impossible to gain hole control to either kick a home team out or kick and keep out an invading force. They are nothing but a huge PITA. And it feels like they are spawning more and more recently.

This is the 5th day now with only 1 in between that we have had frig holes in our farm. This means that this is the 5th day in a row that ive shut down the game and went to do something else because a mechanic that some developers who have clearly never spent any time in jspace put in the game. No content. Not for me. Not for the folks who would roll into my hole. Not for the folks who could be safe logged or cloaked and waiting as type for me to undock something for them to kill.

Make them rollable if you must have them in the game but there has to be some kind of counter play to them. It is simply bad design for them to exist as they do in WH space with how all of the other mechanics work. I can point to several groups that hate them and large group of individuals that I know personally have quit because of not only them (though they were a large part of it.) but how bad surgical strike F’ed us too.

So unfair that I cannot crab safely in wormholes. :cry:


I guess reading is hard.

hmmm farm, farm… oh yea, ccp’s trying to stop farming…get over it, if you can’t defend your “home” don’t live there, that simple.


Wormholes are supposed to be more dangerous than Null.

I’m kind of surprised CCP allows wormholes to be rolled in the first place. To my knowledge- NullSec corps can’t turn off their warp gates.

I can’t speak to frigate holes specifically - but I’d be supportive of CCP removing the ability to roll wormholes all together.


I mean, if nobody is going to krab when frigholes are in their home why have them if their purpose is to create content?

Bubble them, put someone on them to watch them, have guard fleets ready. You literally only have 1 entrance to watch.


If nobody is willing to crab unless all holes are rolled, don’t you think CCP should do something about that ability to roll holes?

I thought wormhole space was supposed to be dangerous…


There is a kind of danger I’ve never seen proposed but should be very easy to implement on a technical level: Ban filaments from J-Space, and once most or all the holes are rolled in a system, that system will never spawn any kind of wormhole ever again.

(As a result, there might be too many isolated systems with 1 or a few forever-trapped capsuleers, which would increase server costs forever. So we might as well put a 20 minute timer to delete the system and automatically destroy everything inside to not bankrupt CCP Games. Hm, this idea is starting to sound familiar…)

Yes to the first suggestion.

The second one doesn’t seem like a good idea to be honest. :stuck_out_tongue:

Frig holes were added to remove the near perfect safety you could get in wh. Sounds like they are working as intended


You are never near perfectly safe in a c5. Never. You can roll all the holes and get rolled into 10 seconds later. It happens all the damn time. It’s not called the c5 highway for no reason. Do any of you even live in WH space… You just run your mouth and don’t know f all about what you’re talking about.

I would agree with the filaments. They are op. If not remove they should add another qualifier to them as they are a way to save you’re ship be it a roller etc if something goes wrong rolling. Maybe a 3x longer timer or something IDK.

When blackout came to Null, all the Krabs ranted and docked, except for a few who went ratting in HAW Phoenixes and got some great fights started or just dunked unsuspecting Dreks. This sounds like the same sort of complaint.

It’s not just Null that had endless free ISK and turned many players, (including big bloc leadership…) into greedy, enitiled, risk averse players.


Something you are immediately notified of and can dock up and start rolling your next connection. I’m well aware of wh mechanics


The end of the blackout killed my entire group. I’m the only one that came back and that was just a couple months ago.

Ok, lets suppose WHs can no longer be rolled. What happens?

Well, people won’t krab in dreads anymore that’s for sure, if a 15-man kiki gang can be anywhere and spell death. I imagine WH space would get much quieter as people dont krab as much or move out. Currently the meta is all about risk averse pve. Nullsec is just as bad, the second anyone is in local everyone docks up. We saw what happened during blackout, that would happen to Jspace if rolling holes wasn’t possible or was too tedious: everyone takes their krabbing to hisec and there’s no more krabs as content.

What happens if krabbing cannot be done in safety?

People stop krabbing.

What happens if people stop krabbing?

People stop roaming for krabs to kill.

What happens if people stop roaming for krabs to kill?

People start krabbing again,
which then results in people roaming again, which results in lower amount of krabs, which means fewer roams… etc.

Krabs and roamers keep eachother in balance. You do not require absolute safety to make krabbing worth it.


we used too… we encouraged people in one of our corps to come in just for such things and we would use them as bait. they got to crab we got fights.

wow people are absolutely clueless how wormholes work lol. You can roll everything you want, your main threat is not the dead as hell chain you’re connected to but other active pvp groups ragerolling for content. You get rolled into all the time. People have adapted to these however and changes from CCP have been taken into account. Things like MJDs make your fleet basically uncatchable, all you lose is one single ship tackled, and even that might not happen if the tackle is cleared. All of that however is beyond the point of frigholes

What frigholes do is kill the illusion of safety you get when you roll your holes. Being rolled into is a risk you accept for the sake of big payout you may get, frigholes remove this sense of safety. Because its a mechanic that cant be dealt with, majority of players choose to do whats “rational” and wait out the lifetime of the connection. You cant roll the swiss cheese of a hole this frighole may be connected to, you cant stop scouts from coming in and catching you with your pants down etc, so people just choose to stay docked up.

On topic of evictions, frigholes are a subject of debate, but we’ve been seeing more and more that big evictions simply dont happen anymore because during the eviction you will most likely have a frighole spawn and the defenders will call a swarm of their “friends”. We’ve seen several evictions get denied big fights because defenders managed to get in 5x numbers advantage and there’s close to nothing you can do as an attacker to stop this, so they just warp to safe and filament out (another absolutely stupid and broken mechanic that needs to be deleted btw)

Very easy solution will be making frigholes spawn EOL, it will make farmhole problems basically nonexistent as you only have to wait 4 hours max and for evictions, it will still give defenders ability to call friends without it becoming a free “I win” mechanic

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Please someone extract that dude asap preferably with frigs .
Nothing less nothing more .
Troll post ! Nuke it !

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