Why do you think that?
Who made the decision all mining ships must be vulnerable? The Barges cost way more then T1 Cruisers and the Exhumers cost more than HACs, like the Ishtar.
Why do you think we have barges/exhumers at all? Why not just have mining frigates?
If you want to fly ships other than the ones NPC’s make you need miners to get the minerals to manufacture them. Or should the NPC fleets be the only miners? Try attacking the NPC Miners, see how the NPC Corp reacts.
Because they are MINING SHIPS. They are not COMBAT SHIPS.
They are a logistical ship that supports the economy. I shall again go back to my IRL Frigate and IRL Tanker example (instead of a Tanker I shall use a fishing vessel cause that makes more sense)
You do not expect a Fishing Vessel to successful defend itself against a IRL Frigate. The Fishing Vessel might have some small arms weapons on board for a small defense but that it is. It cannot and is not suppose to be able to compete against the Frigate which was designed for war.
This is the same concept in eve. The mining ships were not designed to fight. Sure they have the ability to have a tank and dps cause they have to in the game, but they are not designed to be amazing at it. As they shouldnt.
As for cost, it is all about the supply/demand and what is required to build them.
Yes, the NPCs react as they should. A DEFENSE fleet comes flying in to try and save their miners. That is what should be expected.
With the current release version the procurer and skiff aren’t much better than the other meant to be less tanker mining barges and exhumers.
The whole lineup next a revisit
Well then go out and buy an Ishtar, fit it out properly and then go die in it a few times, see how your wallet drops and you have no ability to make ISK anymore?
You attitude is what is wrong with the Developers.
Let all players play on a level playing field. Cost of the hull should return the same benefit ratio of Tank and Gank for all players. Or just go around in a very expensive ship and no modules and see how long you last, You only don’t do that because you do not want to die in it.
They gained a resist bonus per skill level. The raw went down, the EHP stayed the same/rose a bit
I wont die because I understand how to fit it correctly and how to fly it correctly.
Having a level playing field is an awful idea.
As it is currently only the procurer and skiff are capable to even the smallest degree of fending off a attacker or surviving a frigate. The ideal situation is one where the Proc and Skiff can go toe to toe with unprepared cruisers in a 1v1 situation, at least briefly, and the others can hold on but not actually hope of killing alone. This creates a ecosystem where response is able to actually able to protect miners and generate real fights. A prepared attacker will of course always win against a unprepared defender.
To this end I propose useing these ideal base setting for all the mineing barge hulls to bring them to modern eve fitting standards is 1800 hp in shield armor hull. 2-4-4 slot layout, and 360 cpu and 500 powergrid. Along with 150 mps top speed, 20mil kg mass, and 0.5 agility. The proc and skiff could see more base hp added, to give them the desired role.
Aha!
Two things of note:
NPCs mine in Fleets.
They are well-defended.
Just a hint…
I would certainly enjoy teaming up with Aiko & Co. to have a go at them.
But CCP would miss your lovely money, and the dazzling Princess Aiko Danuja would have nothing to blog about!
Wait a second
This could be interesting. If those miners worked together they could all launch one or two sentry drones and instantly pop the ganker who dared flag themselves as criminal.
But then again that requires high sec miners to work together and pay attention.
Moronic comparison.
The fishing vessel can radio for either Coast Guard or Naval assistance and the Frigate will never make it back to port IRL. Believe me I served in the Navy for years. Defending your countries flagged vessels in International waters is the mission of every Navy. The larger the Nave the more ability to react to aggression.
In game try attacking NPC miners, go ahead and stream it for us, It’ll be fun.
This is a game, in games all players need a level playing field, you want an easy target so you don’t have the risk of losing your expensive ship. Concord should react the same as the NPC corp in HS. And pod you as well for you attacking a capsuleer.
You literally just reinforced my point.
The fishing vessel will call upon his navy to help him. Just like what you said the NPCs will do. That is what CCP wants. The mining vessels aren’t suppose to be able to defend solo without the help of their allies and defense fleet.
Also, to call my comparison moronic, what does that make yours, where you compare 2 very different ships together?
No, because in HS you have to wait for them to attack before they get flagged and they will warp off b4 anyone can react. The sentry drones will not shoot automagically someone must lock the target up first.
Or Concord could be in all Ice Belts in HS and shoot anyone who locks another player up not in their fleet. But CCP will never do that. Remember, CCP said Pirating is the most fun you can have in Eve?
You obviously don’t know how ganking in HS works then. If someone ganks someone, they cannot warp off. It is illegal and bannable by CCP.
Concord also prevents it from happening. Thats why you always see catalyst wrecks after a gank. They all die because they are not allowed to warp off and concord kills them.
As I see it the mining barges should be about to tank in the range of high end cruiser to high-end battlecruiser (procurer) at the cost of mining ability.
Exhumers being T2 and high isk value should tank between low battlecruiser and mid range battleship (skiff) at cost of mining ability.
Minimum of 3 midslots and 3 lowslot. Lower tank would have +1 lowslot, with high tank gains +1 midslot.
This means the low tank ships can ether invest in tank modules on low ( regen, power diagnostic and DC) or invest in better mining, and basic midslot for a bit of tank or drone benefits. While the high tank ships can invest in midslots for better tank or drone engagement, while still having basic lowslot utility for a little extra tank or mining.
The Shield resistance bonus is nice, but could be improved as a lvl bonus instead, maybe changed to a +2.5% per level of ship skill instead of a basic +5% at base attribute. This would encourage player skill investment.
They don’t have to attack before the ganker gets flagged, you just lock them up. And once the ganker attacks, fire at him.
And why should that happen automagically? Aren’t high sec miners capable of locking and shooting a target manually by themselves?
You do realize, in the notes the proc and skiff both have new bonuses to Resist that come from their respective skills.
Proc -
"+5% Strip Miner Yield
-4% Ice Harvester Duration
+6% Shield Hit Points
+6% Armor Hit Points
Skiff -
"+5% Strip Miner Yield
-4% Ice Harvester Duration
+6% Shield HP
+6% Armor HP
"
and
"+4% Shield Resistances
+4% Armor Resistances
+5% Light Drones Damage
+5% Medium Drones Damage
"
Getting testy?
History shows that when Merchant vessels were being attacked back in the age of sail, They went around armed with cannons to defend themselves. Some were very formidable, like the Portuguese Black ships that carried Gold back to Portugal.
When commercial shipping is in constant danger they will arm themselves. As recently as WW2 there were merchant ships with Anti-Aircract guns manned by Royal Nave Gunners, there were also Q-Ships, with cruiser class cannons behind shields to hide them and torpedos. The HMAS Perth was sunk by one of them, both ships were sunk in the engagement. So you are as ignorant of history as you are at game play.
Why not go to the PVP/Piracy forums and cry that miners want a fair, level playing field?
Correct, merchants can and do defend themselves. However, they still heavily rely on the protection of others. They can fend off one or two enemy vessels but they cannot defend against a reasonable force, because they don’t and aren’t equipped for that.
That is why military vessels patrol highly contested regions. To be able to quickly provide support to merchant vessels that come across groups they can’t defend against themselves.
What you want is for mining vessels to be able to defend by themselves against most things which is dumb.