Fundimental change to how sov works

[Cryogenix_DarkMatter]

I propose this change to how Sov works , the above Animated gif gives you a visual representation of how it would work, I will outline in this post how it works for those unable to view the gif.

Problems : First of all the issue’s with sov and null, everyone hates fozzie sov, its true, you all know it, everyone also hates how much structure spam there is all over sov null, and finally everyone seems to hate how sov space is mostly empty with most people bunching up into a few systems per region.

The solution as I see is as follows.

When a corporation want’s to take space, they literally move in and start working that space, as that corporation or alliance does more work in that space they raise the systems ADM toward’s them, they are unable to anchor any structures until they get the systems ADM to level 1, this allows them to anchor an Astrahus only, raising the ADM further unlocks the ability to anchor further structures until level 5/6 ADM’s where your finally able to anchor everything.

If the ADM’s drop then in sequence any structures that require a higher ADM than the system allows will go offline and enter low power mode, the home corp or alliance must then raise the ADM’s again to online the structure or risk losing it to a hostile group.

As a corp or alliance raises the system their in’s ADM’s to 5, all subsequent or excess gain then flows over to the adjacent systems raising their ADM’s to a maximum of 2 levels, A corp holding a system will then passively gain influence over all adjacent systems allowing them to anchor more structures.

An Alliance will clearly be able to hold more space, if alliances wish to hold an entire region they will be forced to distribute their players throughout the region thinning out the clutter.

A Hostile group who wish’s to capture space from an enemy will take the space the exact same way, in a corp v corp situation they might move right into the target corps main system and start attacking their players, and structures, while this is going on the Attackers are gaining small amounts of adm points and the defenders are losing adm points, the longer the attackers spend in system the worse the target systems ADM’s get and stuff starts to offline, this makes it easier for the attackers to start clearing out structures, eventually if the defender is unable to push the attackers out, they will take the system from their target and in the process clean the system of all the enemy structures.

This will play out the same for alliances.

This system solves all of the main issues with Nullsec, it will force alliances and corporations to spread their players out and not have them all huddled into a single or small group of systems, it will make grinding through enemy structures easier as you lower their ADM and their ■■■■ goes offline, solving the major issue with citadel spam, and it will make nullsec less safe solving another of the major complaints.

This will also make sov null more open to new groups as it’s unlikely that huge groups will be able to physically hold the space they have now, they simply wont have the people to keep all of those systems and regions in high enough ADM’s so this system will massivly shrink the area of influence any group has freeing up more SOV space for more people to move into from FW space or HighSec.

thoughts?

[Scoots_Choco]

@Cryogenix_DarkMatter

Problems : First of all the issue’s with sov and null, everyone hates fozzie sov, its true, you all know it,. . .

My thoughts are that you never actually set out a concrete “problem.”

[Nevyn_Auscent]

So… to be able.to build titans and defend against them you need to get to 5 adm before the titans turn up to kill your asts…
I mean really… Obvious issue right there.

[Cryogenix_DarkMatter]

Hows that an issue, and hows that not an issue now.

[Nevyn_Auscent]

Right now you don’t have to spend ages farming up a system to drop a keepstar.

[Cryogenix_DarkMatter]

I see that as evidence of the problem, ie Structure spam, something that get’s complained about a lot on these forums and on the pod casts and on reddit so its clearly an issue a lot of people are talking about.

This change would as I said fundamentally change how sov works, so obviously there would be differences.

[Scoots_Choco]

@Cryogenix_DarkMatter

This change would as I said fundamentally change how sov works, so obviously there would be differences.

But why is your system better? What concrete problem are you trying to address with this?

The entire thing reads like “Everyone seems to not like the current system, therefore, any other system is better, why not mine?”

[Cryogenix_DarkMatter]

I thought I made it fairly clear in my OP but I will explain it more since your not grasping my concept.

Problem : Current sov makes people group up in a few systems in a region create lots of empty space and a handfull of systems with lots of people.

Solution: With the above concept corps and alliances are by default encouraged to spread their players out so that they can maintain good adm’s over more systems, meaning more people in lots of systems and not lots of people in a single system.

Problem : Current sov warfare is a nightmare because of structure spam creating stagnation in sov space because taking some one else’s space is terrible, the more spammed structure the more horrifc the timers get.

Solution : With the system I suggest above people will not be able to just spam structures without putting in some ground work first, that ground work can then be countered by locals to prevent structure deployment, play and counter play, systems with double digit structures spammed within it are now much less of an issue or wall to a conquering force, they lower the adms enough the structures go low power and then they kill them, something that could take weeks or months with some systems with current sov mechanics.

Problem : Entosis.

Solution : no more toasting.

Problem : Super Umbrella - current talk in various channels is over how oppressive bigger groups super umbrella is, Personally I think its a good thing, but since my suggestion would potentially impact it I will add it as a problem.

Solution : with the sov system outlined above, and as I have already explained people would be spread out way more than they are at the moment, this means way more people outside the umbrella, or just spread out inside the umbrella which means the potential for more defenders to take longer to respond, this gives whalers and bombers better opportunities to gain kills before the defence fleets can be mobilised, slows them down without making them useless.

hows that?

[Scoots_Choco]

@Cryogenix_DarkMatter

hows that?

You still seem to be missing the point.

@Cryogenix_DarkMatter

Problem : Current sov makes people group up in a few systems in a region create lots of empty space and a handfull of systems with lots of people.

Why is this a problem?

@Cryogenix_DarkMatter

Problem : Current sov warfare is a nightmare because of structure spam creating stagnation in sov space because taking some one else’s space is terrible, the more spammed structure the more horrifc the timers get.

This is wrong because the number of structures does not necessarily influence the timers, but you at least explain why this is a problem. So kudo.

@Cryogenix_DarkMatter

Problem : Entosis.

Why is this a problem?

@Cryogenix_DarkMatter

Problem : Super Umbrella

You don’t explain why this is a problem other than “some people in some places are talking about it.”

[Sitso_Frenia]

I dont think he is doing exact math, numbers could flutuate but in general its an ok idea.

[slobo_slobovitch]

@Cryogenix_DarkMatter

A Hostile group who wish’s to capture space from an enemy will take the space the exact same way, in a corp v corp situation they might move right into the target corps main system and start attacking their players, and structures, while this is going on the Attackers are gaining small amounts of adm points and the defenders are losing adm points, the longer the attackers spend in system the worse the target systems ADM’s get and stuff starts to offline, this makes it easier for the attackers to start clearing out structures, eventually if the defender is unable to push the attackers out, they will take the system from their target and in the process clean the system of all the enemy structures.

How would this work in practise?
Would an attacking player afk:ing in target system be enough to score points or would killmails be required? If kilmails were required, couldent for example, NC. just not undock to save their system? If kilmails are not required, couldent the attacker just cloaky camp space to turn structures offline?

And finaly, how would the system know who is attacking? In many coalitions alliances live in same systems, for example, PL and NC. live in same system attacked by Goons. The owner of the system is NC. Now would PLs presence count as attacking or not? Would this idea require new ingame mechanics for coalitions?

Lastly I feel that any system that forces supers and titans to use POSes when going on an ofenssive run is fundamentaly flawed. We dont want them POSes anymore.

[Cryogenix_DarkMatter]

“Would an attacking player afk:ing in target system be enough to score points”

Nah so it would work like normal ADM’s they would need to rat, mine, do industry when available, so yeah I guess they could afk rat, but if their doing that their gona lose vni’s and if their afk mining their gona lose miners. so cloaky camping would do nothing, killmails wouldnt matter either, they will need to actively rat and mine in the space to push the ADM’s in their favour and that means being active in space where they can become some one else’s content.

I was thinking kinda like Faction Warefare, the system will start empty, until a corp enters and starts working, the system will then add that corp and its progress to its influence list which will contain a list of all entities applying influence to the system, it will be looking at corps, where alliances are concerned the system will just total the values of influence from all corps in the same alliance to get the alliance adm score.

In a situation where you have two alliances, aka Coalitions, the alliance that’s getting the system will do the mining and ratting, the other alliance who are their allies will simply offer cover and deal with any pvp that needs to be done, as long as their not pushing their own influence by mining and ratting or I guess exploring could work as well then they will not have an impact on it.

As for Supers and Titans, in a system like this they are going to be used less at the start of a war and more near the end, initially I think people would be using a lot of subcap fleets as they scope out potential ingress systems and start raising adms, their gona want to be mobile so subcap rather than cap, as they raise adms and are able to anchor better structures like lets say a Fortizar they will then be able to start applying capital pressure on their targets, all the while trying to maintain their fob adm’s, eventually they will get the score high enough to anchor a keepstar and then they can finally start bringing their super fleet to the front lines.

If done well, this could pace out war’s far better than they are now, wars will open with a ton of sub cap encounters, and slowly escalate to capital encounters, and after many fun fights eventually and only if the attacker really wants to, escalates to super warefare, the point is that you wont be able to just skip over sub cap and cap fleets and jump right to a super battle, you will need to progress your war effort until you can eventually use your supers, I think a lot people would be happy to hear this.

Clearly in this situation the defender has an advantage in that he has a super fleet and the structures to dock them, the key thing to consider is that the defender wont be in a situation where he has structures in every system in their home region, maintaining all those adm’s will be a logistical problem for alliances to solve, if you look at Dotlan, any sov region and look at their adm’s you can see where the active systems are, just picture those systems and some adjacent to them, those will probably be the systems with stations, the rest of the region will have no owner or minimal adm’s so biggest station probably an astrahus.

So as an Attacker you will look at their area, see where their week point is and assault a system that puts you in jump range of their stuff while keeping your FOB outside their main umbrella, it’ll all be tactics, plays and counter plays.

Probably all wishfull thinking, I just think we need a change, and something like I have described above would give us more sub cap fleets, less super fleets, but when supers do come into a fight they are coming in near the end and will be far more impactful.

[Salt_Foambreaker]

So basically Sov is “Miner Wars” and “PVE Wars”.

So very very -1.

[Lugh_Crow-Slave]

How to fix sov in one easy step.

Remove sov.

It’s an archaic mechanic that is no longer needed.

[Cryogenix_DarkMatter]

Well I state mining and pve because that’s actually how ADM’s work now, but if CCP can come up with other activities in system that can bolster the ADM score for this system then Id be all for it, like hacking relic and data sites would be an option.

I would also say that PvP would also bolster the score it is a war after all, but it would need to be done in a way that prevents the attacker from just killing neuts or even allies in the system just to gain the points, the system would need to be able to determine that the group doing the killing belongs to the people trying to take the SOV and the person being killed belongs to the group trying to defend, no other kills should count, or it would be gamed heavily.

Also lets not forget that while you have people out mining in a hostile enemy rich environment, and ratters as well, it’s going to be a must that you have a PvP fleet running escort to make sure the defender does not come in and stomp your miners and ratters and explorers, so even tho you implied it would be all pve it really wouldnt.