FW plex warfare has failed, end zero-risk farming

Personally, I would engage. Why? Because i have no reason not to. It’s a videogame!
And you shouldn’t have one either. If i can take down at least one, then it’s still good enough. It should be about the fun. When you all only accept easy fights to boost your egos, then you people are the sole cause for a lack of fights.

Why? Because for you, losses actually hurt. Yet it’s just a videogame!

General you, not you you.

These people you speak of, they really are cowards. The rationalizations are useless. No matter how you spin it, in the end did someone run away from a fight, without even trying to take someone down with him.

Generalizing all fights into binary outcomes, is nonsense.

I understand when people don’t engage without the chance of causing any damage at all, but how often can you not bring at least a fight? People respect those who do not run away for a good reason! Those who do simply don’t deserve any!

TL;DR:

If your loss matters so much to you, that despite being isk-rich enough to replace any losses you choose not to engage the enemy, then you really are a coward! You only seek wins in the attempt to boost your ego and any losses would thus hurt.

General you, not you you.

I pity the insecure fool who values his killboard higher than his dignity and self respect. It’s a game, grow some balls.

PS to make sure you remember: it’s a video game. And this is a forum. And i’m going to bed. good night. :slight_smile:

edit: in hindsight, after re-reading, did i accuse you of operating like those i talk about. You don’t. These “you”'s were a bad idea. Sorry. Tired. :slight_smile:

Yep. It’s Minecraft with a bit of shooting :slight_smile:

–Builder Gadget

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Re: getting blobbed:

That’s the point of setting the penalty to less than the value of finishing the plex. If you’re a legitimate player using the PvP arenas for their intended purpose of PvP then you’ll be fine. You might occasionally decide that the cost of running from an overwhelming force is less than the cost of losing your ship, but you’ll stand and fight often enough to come out ahead in the long run.

The penalty only hurts you if you’re one of the worthless ****s farming plexes 23/7 on an alpha account with lows full of WCS and immediately warping out the moment anything looks in your direction. Since you have zero PvP ability you have to run constantly, take lots of penalties, and quickly get booted out of FW. Or you face the inevitable result of your failures and lose every ship you undock.

If the value of the LP is more than the value of the ship you have to kill to release it, then the farmers can just game the system by killing their own alts (and collecting the loot / salvage too). If the LP isn’t worth more then you just make it so that legitimate FW soldiers make a lot less money to cover their losses (which hurts the new players, who die more often, the most)

You shouldn’t penalise players for leaving a site. Fleets spread players across sites in a system to work several sites at once, but then regroup when an enemy fleet arrives. Why would we want to punish that?

Reducing site payout based on the warp strength of a ship is not a bad ide, was about to propose it myself. Sure people will still farm in empty frigs, but they will be easier to tackle. And at the end of the day it’s the site that’s the objective.

Thirdly, how about reversing the scale of rewards for plexing? The less systems you have, the more lp you have for plexing but less for missions. The more systems you have the more lp you get for missions but less for plexing.

I’m not an expert on lowsec or FW by any means but if they did introduce a big penalty on the farmers, it’d be more dead and overrated than it is now

Eve is full of people who enjoy playing the game their way. It’s also filled with people who try to change the way other people play the game to make their play style “better”. I prefer the former group.

Want people to stop warping away with WCS? Fit your ship properly and HTFU. It’s really that simple. Stop complaining in an effort to have other people (CPP) solve your problems when you can simply and easily solve them yourself.

If you don’t know how to fit your ship properly, might I suggest starting a new thread complaining to CCP? Maybe they’ll fix that for you too.

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The issue is not with the way other people play the game, its that farmers significantly destabilize the WZ for those who are concerned about actual control. Farmers should be able to farm, people who fight for control should be able to exert control by fighting.

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You managed to contridict yourself within the same sentence there.

Nope, let them have their LP, just change the system so that it doesn’t effect the control of the WZ. Just requires some imagination to come up with a new system.

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Where were you, when carebears continuously cried about how PvP in highsec needed to be nerfed, because they didn’t like how we played with them in a PvP game? and where are you now, as they still cry about the same things that have been continuously addressed by CCP over the last decade, yet they keep demanding more?

and always it was them demanding nerfs to my playstyle! i call hypocrite, or uninformed.

this isn’t about playstyles at all. this is about people who have zero care about anyone else. farmers are the top on this list of people and they add nothing for anyone, but instead manage to alienate anyone who actually wants to play just for the game’s sake. see also: this thread.

Why not just use HICs with Infinipoints?
=> renders WCS useless
=> stops “mimimi, they use modules intended to flee from battle to flee from battle. now i can’t easy-kill them anymore. what, there is something againts that? no, i don’t want to fly that. I need the extra high-slot for turrets. they just should be punished if they want to flee from me. THEY are wrong. Not me”

You’re missing the point here. The fact that you can counter WCS with a HIC, at least in the plexes that a HIC can get into, is irrelevant. The WCS are just a sign of the farmer’s intent to refuse PvP at all costs. They have deliberately crippled their ship for combat purposes and ensured that doing anything but running away is suicide, so it’s clearly not a case of “I’ll fight anything reasonable, I just run from a 5v1 gank”. And if they refuse to participate in PvP then they should not be able to farm PvP content and make lots of money doing it.

That said, the existence of HICs does not negate the problem with WCS. If you’re forced into taking a single specific counter to something then that is almost always a balance issue. FW is supposed to involve more than just anti-farmer HICs, as you might notice from the various FW sites that do not allow HICs to enter.

WCS really do need a rework, that I’ll agree with. But they are only a symptom of a deeper problem. Which is the all or nothing nature of EVE engagements (Unless you are a super kitty mordus ship with long points).
Once you get into tackle range it’s rare to succeed in disengaging until someone is dead. This isn’t a good mechanic where there is no opportunity to escape. I strongly would want to see some mechanic built into all ships where by if you can survive for long enough in a fight, you can then warp despite tackle.
Then you can simply remove WCS, and people can’t warp out instantly, but if you can’t kill them or get help soon enough they can warp out eventually and get on with their day.

Nope.

The root of the issue is the person farming. Problems always root in people. Motivation and Intention matter. Blaming mechanics, instead of those responsible for their behaviour, leads nowhere.

Thank you for sharing an insight into your mindset.

Curious. How long should that be?

To be fair, it’s a bit much to ask that everyone to skill for HICs, because of assholes who only abuses the mechanic for farming, not caring at all about those who actually want to play.

Your passive aggressiveness was noted. You don’t at all care about the people. You also don’t care about the motivation of farmers, who do not actually care about FW, yet seriously influence the game for those who do.

My initial thoughts would be about 1 minute per point of warp strength needed to escape (Give bubbles a warp strength obviously) for a cruiser sized ship. Larger ships this should tick up so enough buffer doesn’t make you unstoppable in 1v1 fights
I can see some alternative maths using stacking penalties that start significantly higher but don’t scale the same way also.

And yes, I’m sure certain fits can be come up with that would be hard to kill in that time solo or 2 v 1 etc. Any system is gameable, but if it makes that person prepared to engage 2 v 1 with less certainty of an overwhelming kill but knowing if they tank for long enough they can get back out of the fight, then isn’t that a good thing.

I wasn’t involved in that discussion, if that’s what you’re asking (I probably wasn’t active on the forums at that time).Had I been involved, my message would have been consistent with my current opinion and I would have been opposed to nerfing PvP.

I’ve already reported my position on this, but I can expand on it. I don’t like any group lobbying to have another group’s play style changed in an effort to benefit their play style.

Meh, if I’m a hypocrite or uninformed because I have a different opinion than you, then so be it.

Nerfing discussion aside, for those who are frustrated by enemy pilots using WCS to escape engagements, there is a relatively easy solution to this which was presented by @Frostys_Virpio earlier in the thread, but seems to have been overlooked.

To expand on this, the Maulus Navy Issue gives your warp scrambler’s an additional +2 strength. This gives your standard warp scrambler a strength of 4, meaning anyone with less than 4 WCS will be caught. Fit two and it gives you a strength of 8, making your scramblers strong enough to stop any frigate/destroyer/cruiser, regardless of the number of WCS they have fit.

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My apologies, Sir. Apparently I had it all backwards. I don’t know what i was reading back then, but instead of looking it up, i’ll just head back to sleep. Already got six hours of sleep today, in two sessions. So happy! :blush:

/me yaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnns.

Have a nice sleeping day! :blush:

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