Literally, not.
Complete nonsense. Sorry to say that so bluntly, who came up with the ridiculous plan to field expensive ships against a Catalyst fleet? You use fully insured T1 ships with high DPS output (or bonused ECM) supported by a RemoteSebo Guy. Pulse Omens, ArtyRuptures, Oracles, Talos all work excellently. Even if the gankers try to go for your guys they will pay a lot more in Catalysts + Tags to gank you than you lose after insurance and loot (yes, you can loot the field after CONCORD has wiped them off). Just replace the ship and be ready again after like 5 minutes, while they sit out their 15 min timer (during which they can’t gank anyone else, so “mission accomplished”).
IF you go for T2, then you use AB-HACs with at least a 1600er plate, 2 Trimarks and an Assault Damage Control. Supported by a guy in a full ArmorFleetboost Commandship. Good luck ganking one of these when not standing still (yea, good way to die is sitting around with 0m/s under active weapon timers while another 10 Catalysts are on the warp to you).
The only RR you need is some Burst-RR to keep the target alive longer, and even that can be done by stupidly cheap Ospreys.
Thats completely up to you. If you have a goal, make investments. Nobody says you have to buy tags or famr tags if you think the outcome isn’t worth your money or time. But if you really hate ganking, you can do it, the option is there. Your decision to take it or not.
Then you should do what I have suggested: Get some leadership and organization, do some PR and recruit people willing to fight ganking. If the “problem” with ganking is so bad and so many people hate it, you shouldn’t have problems finding people willing to help you. As said, the removal “neutral RR” is absolutely no issue and risking “expensive ships” also isn’t. All the tools required for Antiganking are cheap and easily accessible, even for noobs.
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Don’t be silly. If the manufacturing chain was messed up there’d be no Catalysts to do the ganking. Yet there is no shortage whatever.
Oh, and the miner might think he’s just mining to ‘make ISK’…but he is part of the very chain that leads to ganker ships. He can’t complain when his own materials come back to bite him.
A noob could teach him a thing or two.
So how come this hasn’t happened yet?
That’s where the issues lie, I think. First, most of the people involved in the AG lifestyle are heavily invested into the Dunning-Kruger spectrum, so each one want to be “commander” because they “know best” with regard to what needs to be done, and how. Second, the exceptionally controlling attitude possessed by the typical AG ensures that recruitment is difficult and unsustainable, because most players brought into the collective leave very quickly after not being able to deal with the threats, ultimatums, and needlessly domineering attitudes of the leadership caste. AG groups aren’t fun, chill places to be; they’re stressful, abusive, and toxic, full of incompetent people jousting for power in one of the few environments they have left where they can remotely pretend to have any at all. AGs want to be perceived as big-shot admirals in charge of important matters and large groups of people, but it’s not something they can accomplish in conventional social circles, as no one wants to play with people who aren’t competent enough to keep their PvE boats protected from ganks, but at the same time act like they know about the game more than everyone else.
Before neutral RR was removed there were organised fleets, after that was applied it ended. People were developing ships and fits to take out three to four catalyst before CONCORD showed up.
Check how many times an Oracle can fire during a gank and the alpha strike, work it back on whether this is really efficient, shooting two Catalysts makes no difference to the gank, simple as that.
You think a AHAC can do that? And what happens to seebos as soon as you engage? Even shooting a single flashy red creates a limited timer if you shoot them with an offensive weapon.
AG can’t routinely use throw away ships because there is no income stream, you seem to ignore that.
The removal of RR stopped people from fielding interesting ships and made it a throw away ship fight which we would always lose.
I am merely giving you the reasons, there are no organised AG people at this point.
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Believe it or not, there was a moment in EvE history where @Aiko_Danuja was deciding whether to gank, or antigank. After encountering the antiganking community, she realized straight away that these are people who reject every solution, because they want to complain and whine and fail endlessly. These are people who want AFK mining and AFK hauling to be the “meta”, and anything which threatens that is “griefing”. It’s “not fair” that some people have time to gank, while other people are too busy watching television! 
Failing is really the point of antiganking - what better way to “prove” ganking is unfair, other than spending years failing and complaining in the forums? The final straw for me was when I suggested a convoy system, with armed escorts, and (of course) the billionaire freighter pilots should help fund the alpha antiganker defense fleet. Oh boy, they sure cried about that, charging a protection fee they said was no better than a mining permit! They said I was acting just like Thomas the Embezzler, well ok, maybe a little. 
So then I decided to talk to the gankers, and they were cool, a fun friendly chill community that enjoys winning. I bought two mining permits my first day, and I guess one was a winning ticket. @James_315 said I was a lucky lady. In another reality, I could have been leader of the antigankers, but I have to live with my choices. Unfortunately, Dracvlad will never understand, because he has me blocked, and never logs in. How can you have a valid opinion about a game that you haven’t played in years? 
The funniest thing is Dracvlad and Dryson and Astevon vowed to destroy the invincible CODE. alliance, and instead it was me - I lived their dream, and took everything they wanted and made it mine. They can never ever destroy the CODE. because I already did. Wow, antiganking failed again, amazing! It just proves that if you log in and undock, instead of whining, you can achieve the impossible! 
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Thank you Aiko for making the right choice! We all love you!
An Oracle can reliable take out 3 Cats:
I am even on the 4th with one unlucky gracing shot:
And that was me complete solo, which means I had to lock up the Cats first pretty slowly without SeBos. If I had RemoteSebo’s on me, that 4th Kill would also be mine.
Now explain to me, if I have 10 Oracles in Fleet and you have 6 of your “secret expensive ships” plus 4 Guardians, who will kill more Catalysts in the same time? I am very sure it’s me, if you claim otherwise I’d like to see the math. You don’t need RR, you need sheer damage or EWAR and some pilots who know what they do.
Sure it does. It increases the cost of the gank by the cost of two Catalysts. This means more pilots needed for the gank to be successful, more killrights to gain, more gankers on timer, higher threshold of which ganks are lucrative (due to higher costs) and which are even doable (due to how many pilots can they bring). So if you can bring 6 ships can can each remove 2 Catalysts, yes that is a BIG difference compared to just doing nothing and complaining at the forums.
A Zealot can take down two reliably, three if it can insta-lock. But I would only use a Zealot if they are very eager to take one of my guys down, so I can make sure if they want that they have to use a large number of their pilots for even trying (and still probably failing if my guy knows how to react).
Who cares, you lock all the Cats that you are assigned to shoot at the same time and after that you don’t need the Scanreso boost any more. What the heck?
Your own fault that you are poor. Probably means you aren’t very successful at the game and that could explain why you can’t field a proper fleet. I have probably killed more than a hundred gankers so far, either by baiting them into attacking one of my chars, by directly shooting them or by making them die without a kill by applying EWAR or activating killrights right before their target jumped in. And you know what: I have not lost a single ship to them so far. All your “arguments” are nothing but excuses. If you can’t afford to throw away ships, just don’t do it and learn how to kill efficiently. RR is the last thing you need for that.
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Fourth one has Concord on it, it is meaningless in terms of the gank, remember that the objective is to take down the DPS in a short period of time, the sooner the better. Do you have ten Oracles at this point, nope. Also those Oracles are easy to kill and as AG has no income trading like that is a loss to AG. It is not difficult to understand. With neutral RR we could alleviate the risk, but now that Oracle is on its own. As I said there are very few AG players left due to this, your ten oracles don’t exist,
Increasing the cost of a gank is not that much of a victory as they build in redundancy to their ganks. When we were going through the DPS option we knew that we had to take out 6 in the first ten seconds based on their redundancy to have a chance to remove enough of their DPS, they could then load more DPS in, but their next option was to take out the DPS we had. Which is why RR was important.
A Zealot needs two vollies to take down a Catalyst, it just does not work, if you call that reliable I have to wonder what you mean.
The Seebo is one thing, remote tracking enhancers are another to try to make sure you can get that single volley kill. Remember you have to reliably kill a ship each volley.
It is a simple point that is ignored, AG has no income stream, you cannot trade losses with gankers, without the RR capability you end up with trading losses and that is why AG no longer exists in any organised way. You ignore this key point and pretend it is unimportant, except it is the most important issue. Just because you don’t see it does not mean that those who did this did not.
The RR nerf was a real killer for AG. it destroyed organised fleets, period. You can deny that however much you want but after that change the players left melted away.
You say you have not lost any ships to them, which shows you were ineffective in stopping ganks, they only went for people who were making them fail. Did they actually try to gank you, I am guessing not.
PS. There was one ship that could do this effectively and reliably, it was the Marshall, so without RR support who in their right mind would risk that?
PPS I personally liked nuking the locking range of the -10 suicide tackle, that meant that the prey would get into warp and they fail the gank, easy to counter as they have to use a tackle that is not -10 so I can’t nuke him before he gets that first important point on the target ship.
Anyway, it is an argument for nothing much at all, AG does not exist in any organised form, and never will at this point.
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You seem to have some kind of problem with logic.
Yeah, thats why you bring every pilot of your fleet in either a full DPS or bonused EWAR ship. Logis don’t add DPS or EWAR to your fleet, so they contribute nothing to your main goal. And you still have to show us those “expensive efficient ships” that can take down Cats significantly faster than an Oracle. I am waiting.
what the heck? It is an example! If you want to compare efficiency, you have to compare two fleet compositions against each other. It doesn’t matter if you can bring 5, 10 or 20 pilots, you have to compare the same number of pilots just with different ships. You are free to show us your “high efficient fleet setup” and explain how that performs better over just a full rack of high DPS ships that can lock quickly.
Sure it is. The whole concept of a counterfleet, be it DPS or EWAR is to force them to throw ever more and more pilots or more expensive ships (Cats->Bombers->Talos/Nados) on their targets to even have a chance to make the kill. To the point they either can not (lack of available chars online) or want not (lack of profits) to escalate any more.
ok, at this point we can stop talking, you have obviously no idea about how to fight gankers. No wonder AG never succeeded at anything. Holy moly…, my eyes bleed from only reading that some superbrain even thinks to field a Marshal to stop Catalyst Fleets. Thats the top of Mt. Stupid.
And that is entirely their fault.
The Prophet sees your excuses.
You could try to lead them. But you won’t.
We all know why.
He does, in fact, not know how to fly well.
The Prophet has tried to educate him in the past.
There is no fleet, as I said organised AG no longer exists.
Your create fleets to counter, having RR on high resists does tend to work. As I said you do not want to trade losses as an AG because you lose.
The escalation point is in their favour, the ones you shot in your Oracle did not have additional accounts and were limited to what they can take down, but they are not the norm.
The objective of AG was to stop the gank and save the target. making it cost more was not a win.
The Marshall idea was not me by the way, it was another player, but it was the only ship that could alpha Catalysts reliably and quickly, the guy who tried this ended up having it ganked, he could not protect it other than using evasion. I know it is stupid, but when you start going back through the numbers and test various ships for efficiency it ends up being ridiculous. Calling me stupid for pointing this out is amusing, that is the bottleneck of the game design, so no wonder I don’t want to play that game, and no one else should either.
So ignoring the stupid part and the insults, it might upset you that I gave you the reasons, but that is fine, I am used to it. As I said I rather liked the Celestis, but it is easy to counter and I never used a Marshall obviously. LOL I did try an Abaddon, but the tracking was not good enough, the Oracle was too easy to gank and trading losses is not an option.
I know you don’t like the answers, but remember that this is about why no one does AG, as I said it is stupid…
Blah blah blah, I obviously know nothing, rofl. But I am talking about why no one AG’s, trying to link the issue of what ship you need to use to reliably remove DPS and make such a comment is typical of these forums, and makes me laugh a lot.
I will take this one, I freely admit that I never tried to lead AG because I did not think I was up to it because it was too great a challenge based on how impossible it is. I freely admit I would fail, truth is I don’t think anyone would win doing this, so what!!! And it would only have been fun if we could have organised fleets, that was fun, and is why AG no longer exists.
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Dracvlad is more of a talker type than a doer type.
If you need to discuss the practical application of some kind of gameplay concept, you call one of the people who actually log in and play EVE Online. If you need someone to theory-craft a “solution” to something that no one thinks is an actual problem (after doing the bare minimum amount of desperate Googling to try to understand enough of the bare-bone basics to make it seem like its their own original idea), you mention “Destiny’s challenge” and he’ll be typing a hyper-defensive response essay in the thread three minutes later.
Sadly we don’t get save mails.
Why would that matter? Anyone can check and see that before the neutral RR changes, your AG activity consisted entirely of using an insta-lock Thrasher to get on kill mails before CONCORD finished the job. You weren’t trying to save anyone, you were only kill-whoring.
Sadly we don’t get save mails.
That would be cool. There is no reason not to have double the modules on all the ships and double the hull, shield strength. Unfortunately EvE isn’t about “cool”.
Clearly not interested in a debate, just a good whine.
Quite right, that is indeed a whine by Aiko.
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