Ganking makes Eve a better place

[Duella_Cre_Vil]

This is making my work lunch a lot more interesting XD

[Aiko_Danuja]

Cilla writes a lot, for a so-called new player. I wonder if Cilla is actually the alt of someone who is too ashamed to post with their main?

I was going to read what Cilla wrote, but then I realized, “Why bother?” CCP isn’t listening to these people. Their opinions don’t matter. They have some kind of objection to ganking, but who cares? I don’t.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Cilla_Cybin

The asymmetric nature of ganking is one reason I do not regard it as ‘proper’ PvP.

Most of EVE PvP is asymmetric.

Gate camps, suicide ganks, war ganks, people roaming null sec for kills, null sec alliance responses to those roaming groups, the Astero killing a fellow explorer, the T3C that uncloaks to kill the Astero. There’s always a bigger fish.

If you’re looking in a big ocean of fish of different sizes and say ‘it’s only proper PvP if both fish are the same size’, you’re going to need another definition to describe all the other fighting that happens.

Most people just keep it simple and call it all ‘PvP’ as long as players are involved on both sides of the fight.

[Pozdro_Tubylcy]

meh (three dots)

[Sasha_Nemtsov]

Hello again, Cilla; I can see that - from my point of view - your definition of PvP is quite a narrow one. Anything which falls outside it cannot be PvP, in your own view…

Perhaps the issue is one of definitions - sincerely invested ones, to be sure. Since your definition of the term differs from mine, we’re bound not to be able see eye-to-eye.

I recall my anatomy tutor facing a youthful and somewhat loosely attentive class and intoning - ‘You will learn what things are called before anything else.’ His point being that there had to be a common understanding of terms before any meaningful discussion of the subject could take place.

Perhaps the only even contests in EVE are those organised with the conditions agreed in advance by all participating parties. The rest? Backyard brawls, essentially.

[Gix_Firebrand]

@Cilla_Cybin

But you are effectively agreeing with my point ! The whole reason gankers have the fits they do is BECAUSE of Concord. You keep trying to make Concord some post hoc ‘consequence’…some minor little inconvenience…just road sweepers turning up after the crash. But Concord DECIDE the entire fit and strategy in advance. How can NPCs that have that much influence not be a factor in the entire endeavour ?

What is more…I have seen miners ( quite cleverly, actually…they are not as ‘stupid’ as you say ) employ the ganker trick of re-directing Concord…in this case to hang about and defend them. I guess the loss of a single Venture in the asteroid belts is peanuts to the big mining corps. In no way can it STILL be PvP when people are calling up NPCs in advance to defend them !

In fact the entire issue of Condord being re-directed is yet another aspect you just ignore.

I am in fact not agreeing with your point. Please re-read my responses until it sinks in. CONCORD Is the consequence, not the goal or who they are even fighting.

Also I posted a long time ago about pulling CONCORD. Welcome to like last month.

It def isn’t one I ignore, I already suggested it for gate camped systems. Its a harder tactic to pull for roaming gank fleets.

@Cilla_Cybin

Cloaked friends is yet another dubious proposition. As if mining isn’t boring enough as it is…who’s gonna want to hang about for hours and watch…nothing ?

Maybe if miners paid them for their time? I know right? Shocking that you gotta play and think huh?

@Cilla_Cybin

I have better tactics, like always moving my mining ship above the asteroid belt…so asteroids cant get in the way. I never name my ship ’ Cilla Cybin Procurer’, as that’s just asking to be taken out by anyone who wants a personal gank. I have my ship at 65K EHP…gonna be hard for any solo ganker to take me out ( it can go as high as 80K EHP…but the extra cost is just not worth it ). And I have two alternate routes to where I mine…in case gankers decide to hang about at stargates. Plus…best of all…I know a 0.5 security system where at certain times of day I’m the only one there !

And to cap it all off…now I’m an Eve billionaire and have all my various ship fits saved, gankers can eat my exhaust as ‘I’ll be back’…to quote Arnie.

So you admit that you know the ways and means to avoid gankers and it isn’t a serious problem and that if miners took precautions as you do they’d be fine. Got it.

@Cilla_Cybin

Of course there are situations in ‘proper’ PvP where one ship heavily outweighs another and slaughter takes place. But in that situation the loser COULD always have turned up in a better ship, or at least a matching one. Where ganking is absurdly asymmetrical and ’ not cricket’ ( as we’d say in the UK ) is the degree to which even the best armoured and shielded barges, etc, have zero real defence against a team of gankers that are not even maxed out in terms of strength.

It is not an even fight…and to me that ability for a fight to be even is the very basis of proper PvP.

There is no “proper” PvP. There’s just PvP. If you aren’t seeking to fight at an advantage, you doing it wrong LOL.

@Gerard_Amatin

the Astero killing a fellow explorer

Don’t judge me I love waiting at the data sites…

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Cilla_Cybin

I’m an Eve billionaire

[Cilla_Cybin]

Yeah well at least I didn’t make my billions by mugging defenceless noobs in rookie space. I’m thinking of suggesting to CCP that they mint a special Medal Of Honour for all the brave souls who show up in 15 Catalysts and blast some 1 day old noob in a Venture to bits.

[Aiko_Danuja]

CCP is going to give me a statue.

[Cilla_Cybin]

@Gix_Firebrand

There is no “proper” PvP.

There is if you want to exclude the word ‘cowardly’ from the conversation.

Though I guess it must require a special level of…er…‘PvP’ heroism and bravery to be one of 15 people waiting to mug some one day old noob in his prize Venture.

[Cilla_Cybin]

@Aiko_Danuja

CCP is going to give me a statue.

It better be well shielded

[Cilla_Cybin]

@Gix_Firebrand

So you admit that you know the ways and means to avoid gankers

I also know the ways and means to avoid burglars…but that doesn’t justify burglary.

[Gix_Firebrand]

@Cilla_Cybin

Yeah well at least I didn’t make my billions by mugging defenceless noobs in rookie space. I’m thinking of suggesting to CCP that they mint a special Medal Of Honour for all the brave souls who show up in 15 Catalysts and blast some 1 day old noob in a Venture to bits.

I made my first bil ransoming a lone rattle at the oisio gate in Hysera. Greatest EVE memory.

@Cilla_Cybin

There is if you want to exclude the word ‘cowardly’ from the conversation.

Though I guess it must require a special level of…er…‘PvP’ heroism and bravery to be one of 15 people waiting to mug some one day old noob in his prize Venture.

Oh? So you’re calling every army ever in history cowardly? Got it. You realize every tactical engagement, each side strives to get the highest advantage possible to reduce loss and secure victory right?

But then I guess Sun Tzu and Miyamoto Mushashi didn’t know what they were talking bout right ROFL.

So now we know for you PvP is basically arena combat with pre-determined fits. Which that is indeed PvP. And so is ganking. You can’t have it both ways.

@Cilla_Cybin

I also know the ways and means to avoid burglars…but that doesn’t justify burglary.

And there are consequences to burglary right? Just like CONCORD is the consequence to ganking.

So do people just not use ways and means in real life to avoid burglary but wait for the police to always save them?

LOL you just walked right into my point. Or do you walk along a dark street swinging your purse around announcing loudly you got 5k in cash on you?

You have basically agreed with all my points. Thankee for ceding the field.

[Codename_Razorback]

@Gerard_Amatin

being a smarter mouse

In the country of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

I’m happy to be the cat.

[Gix_Firebrand]

@Codename_Razorback

I’m happy to be the cat.

How? You don’t even play bro.

[Codename_Razorback]

[Gix_Firebrand]

Again, only emojis? Thank you for ceding the field

[Ridley_Rohan]

@Aiko_Danuja

Cilla writes a lot, for a so-called new player. I wonder if Cilla is actually the alt of someone who is too ashamed to post with their main?

I was going to read what Cilla wrote, but then I realized, “Why bother?” CCP isn’t listening to these people. Their opinions don’t matter. They have some kind of objection to ganking, but who cares? I don’t.

None of that “attacking the messenger” screed does anything against whatever Cilla said.

One rule of this forum is that if one character gets banned you may post with any of the other two characters on that account. Further, when someone posts with an ALT people so very often at least have a guess who the main is.

And for someone who claims to not care what objections to ganking are raised on the forum you sure chime in lot in the ganking threads. In fact it seems far more likely that you are positively terrified that hi-sec ganking will get nerfed in some way.

[Gix_Firebrand]

@Ridley_Rohan

None of that “attacking the messenger” screed does anything against whatever Cilla said.

One rule of this forum is that if one character gets banned you may post with any of the other two characters on that account. Further, when someone posts with an ALT people so very often at least have a guess who the main is.

And for someone who claims to not care what objections to ganking are raised on the forum you sure chime in lot in the ganking threads. In fact it seems far more likely that you are positively terrified that hi-sec ganking will get nerfed in some way.

Cept Cilla doesn’t know what PvP is so

[Ridley_Rohan]

@Cilla_Cybin

There is if you want to exclude the word ‘cowardly’ from the conversation.

Though I guess it must require a special level of…er…‘PvP’ heroism and bravery to be one of 15 people waiting to mug some one day old noob in his prize Venture.

Well, honestly, I think you have the wrong dichotomy, mainly as I don’t think heroism is a primary motive for ganking. I think a primary motive is just the thrill of being able to “get away” with something others object to. Its a bit like a kid being told off by a parent for saying a curse word, then they stick their tongue out at their parent once the parent’s back is turned. Yeah. That level of maturity. But it is a game after all.

Aside, in local chat, I lamented that some people IRL also just do things because they can and cannot even consider the question of if they should. I posted that in response to a ganker attacking corvettes, shuttles and pods and spastically posting the kill mails in local. The ganker promptly had a complete conniption fit, but trying to explain that my issue was with that attitude in real life was my problem, not in game, was a lost cause. People often complain claiming I cannot separate the game and real life, but they don’t seem to understand that I was insisting people NOT do that, as in, not carry game attitudes in real life.