Garoun and Morthane: Hegemony, Rivalry, and the Federal-State Relationship

The tactics I pointed out come from a playbook used by democracies in the World Democracy League and the Three Bloc Era centuries prior to the advent of the Federation itself. Destabilizing foreign adversaries through a wide variety of efforts and then claiming that the advantageous paradigm shift that results from them is nothing more than inheriting a happy coincidence has been the norm and not the exception in Gallentean history.

In fact, your attempt at dismissal of such tactics is what historically speaking, intelligence agencies and the political establishment of such democracies promoted: to destabilize through subterfuge, destroy through espionage, and instigate revolution while at all times disavowing such efforts were taking place and at no time allowing actual attribution to themselves as a known state actor.

I can however present it as matter of discussion for pure speculation, knowing that as such it can be readily dismissed as such for official policy is that no such methods are used. Meanwhile, hypothetically speaking, if they are used and successful then no other state actor will admit that they were – if only to spare political leaders the embarrassment.

3 Likes

Well, it is just shows from another point of view, how dishonorable these democracies were. There are three main components of honor: loyalty, honesty and courage. And by conducting such tactics they show lack of both honesty and courage.

This is unacceptable. This is shameful. This is disgusting.

When you see such behavior, the best answer would be WAR. And stomp down these annoying coward democracies like cockroaches.

Because it’s times better, respectable and reputable to be aggressive warmonger than such sort of dishonest coward dishonorable backstabber like these democratic jerks.

1 Like

It was merely idle speculation, Miss Kim. I assure you, we are all Very Nice Guys here in the Federation, and you should not place much stock in specious conspiracy theories that cannot be verified.

Sometimes things just happen, cyno jammers accidentally fail and that capital fleet that was supposed to jump into Algogille on a routine military exercise winds up in Luminaire right next to a Leviathan like the CNS Shiigeru.

It certainly was not by intentional design, just one of those wild coincidences that happen from time to time with no fault on the part of the Federation.

3 Likes

Well, I agree, some things can’t be verified. While others - can be.
Have you seen footages from Federal prison colonies in Black Rise and the treatment of captive Caldari PoWs?
I did. I have even been there myself - not as a captive, I assure you, but in the role of a rescuing party. And I’ve seen it not just from feeds, but with my own eyes.

And after what I saw these “Very Nice Guys” were doing, I just want to give them two things. Once - shot right through their insensitive heart, second - shot right between the eyes. And maybe then a couple more bursts of fire along their body just to make sure that abomination won’t stand up, because they might not have used their hearts or brains anyway. :rage:

1 Like

Well, if they were not using their hearts and brains prior to your shooting them, I would assume they were already dead.

Is the shooting of corpses considered a display of martial prowess among the Caldari people?

3 Likes

Marksmanship, maybe?

3 Likes

More like him missing the main message yet another time, like he did multiple times before.
I don’t know why I even waste my time on him, he’s just another gallentean.

1 Like

Whatever my opinions of the Caldari State may be, I do at least try to err on the side of competency as regards their capabilities.

The existence of Federal government incarceration facilities within the borders of the State would strongly imply an egregious inability of the State to manage their own borders. Worse, if the Federation can build such facilities within the State with impunity then they can build others with far greater repercussions for State security.

As such, I’ll dismiss such claims, at least insofar as I hold the CEP in esteem to manage their internal security and territorial integrity of their sovereign borders intact.

2 Likes

Bla-bla-bla.
“Strongly imply an egregious inability”, what a nonsence! Have you heard about concept of deadspace pockets? All pirates love to build in them. Go ahead, I am pretty sure if you run your scanner in any taken Federal system you will find dozens of serpentis, blood raiders, rogue drones and all other galactic scum nestling in these. So in that regard we definitely aren’t worse than Federation. So, dear gallentean, keep your mouth shut about it and don’t embarass your already poor reputation by your further ignorance.

The difference is that in addition to all that scum like gurista, who settle in our deadspace pockets, we have Federals too. Behaving just like common criminals, but I am not surprised.

Returning to one of your previous nonsence you spouted in here, e.g. about “keeping me at arm reach”, I can even myself go to Federation core words and make a snapshot of what my scanner will show, how much criminals you have settled in deadspace pockets. Want me to do that?

Oh, and you just confirm my previous statement:

Oh dear… because it definitely wasn’t about the fact of building in deadspace pockets, but fact about WHAT they are building and WHAT treatments prisoners get in these buildings.

Even Mr. Nauplius probably could learn some brutality from Federal jailers.

Considering you oh so much missed this part just one more time, I still keep to my opinion that I am waste time on you, and you just behave like a typical gallentean. :woman_shrugging:

1 Like

Until you present verifiable evidence of the actual interior and conditions of these alleged facilities, then the only treatment those supposed prisoners get is purely anecdotal.

2 Likes

Oh oh, if you keep this up, this thread will get as many posts and views as the Amarr VS Minmatar one, let’s see who despises each other more.

3 Likes

Just nearly an order of magnitude to go.

(Don’t actually think that’s a very good measure, though.)

3 Likes

I cannot say I despise anyone involved in this discussion so far. A bit of verbal sparring and exchanging of barbs in public discussion is normative at times in the Federation.

3 Likes

Oh, that’s actually easy!

Just before I start, I would like to remind you, that I am a Caldari Officer and live by ideals of honor, that consist mainly of loyalty, courage and HONESTY. That means I can’t lie. But since you gallenteans are aliens to these things and used to lie to each other and to others, I understand your mistrust to other people. You really should learn though to trust to Caldari officers.

Anyway, back to the topic.
I can send you a video feed to your NeoCom mail (since obviously I cannot post it in this media). But since you may say it is not verifiable (just a feed), I’ll better just tell you how to get it yourself, and then - how to verify it in person.

Okay, step one: getting the feed (without actually flying anywhere).
Open any of your NeoCom channels or NeoCom search string (not just Galnet, use NeoCom interface - it gives result fasters (though as I checked GalNet search gives pretty much accurate results as well) and type “Caldari Prisoners of War”.

Step two (just in case you will think these things are forged) - verifying it in person.
For this you will need to actually show your abilities as a capsule pilot. Yes, deadspace pockets can be hard to find, but not when you are capsuleer with fast ship and ability to afford a probe scanner.
For this mission you will need:
A combat-able ship (better a battleship with nice tanking abilities - preferably kinetic/thermal, or a strategic cruiser; but a good battlecruiser or heavy assault cruiser might do fine either; you might try a cruiser, but I wouldn’t recommend).
A probe scanner with a set of probes.
A “FedNav F.O.F. Identifier Tag AC-106V:FNSBR”. It is a bit tricky to obtain, as it might need some hacking, but easy way is just to buy it from contracts. They are often on sale in Black Rise. In Caldari Space you can buy a lot for money.

Take some ammunition, fit probe scanner, fit it with probes (any reasonable variant will do), shove the tag in your cargo and strap to your ship data analyzing module - and you’re all set.
With this ship head to any high security system in Black Rise.

Go for ‘combat site’ scanning, and you will be looking for “Federation Detention Facility”, they are almost in every system, so it won’t be hard to find. There will be some Federal guards, and you need to go to the second pocket, for which you need the identifier tag.

Feel free to blast through these federal swines - they are considered “outlaws” and valid target even by CONCORD standards. Of course there are no bounties for them, since they are… federal navy ships. But they drop Federal tags, and the State will gladly accept them, offering you top quality goods in exhange! (Or you can just sell them in Jita, genuine Federal Navy dogtags can fetch a nice price!).

Anyway, after you finish off these swines or just slip through the gate into the second compound, you will see these prisons. And here you will need data analyzer - for you will have to extract the prisoners from them to see for yourself. I’ll just ask you instead of just hanging and staring, go and save as many as you can before departing - you will have just one minute for this. You see, the moment you will start breaking into the cell, Federals instead of dealing with you will simply blow up all the cells with prisoners…

I am not sure if there will be some Federal jailers in these cells themselves when they blow up these helpless and tortured prisoners, but I could expect that, taking into account Alexander Noir’s behavior.

I can only ask though after they blow up cells - show no mercy and butcher all these murderous swines. Or if you will manage - just capture survivors (there are usually some alive gallentean soldiers in smoldering wrecks) for questioning. Oh, they can tell you a lot! Pretty much enough for death sentence.

1 Like

For all that you wrote, nothing in it actually allows corroboration of what the interior conditions of these facilities are like, nor is there any documentary evidence, or witness testimony. You have claimed:

Which is your assertion that the prisoners in these facilities face abuse. All that you have offered as evidence is two neocom descriptions in which having no attribution to its author could have been written by anyone at all, and your word, which to me means nothing of value.

2 Likes

Go and see for yourself. Instructions were provided.
Continuing denying that without checking it for yourself would just mean you’re not a simple ignorant, but a straighforward troll, since, I repeat, I provided you with enough instructions to educate yourself properly and extract all the evidences yourself…

Well, provided you are at least minimally competent as a capsule pilot, but otherwise - what are you even doing on capsuleer boards?

1 Like

Now that was a bit disingenuous wasn’t it my dear Pieter?

Help an old man whose memory fails, remind me again who placed the offending Titan in Luminaire?

1 Like

Was there any offending Titans in Luminaire?
I think offenders brought only Nyx with Moroses, I haven’t seen any Erebuses on the grid.

2 Likes

It’s a matter of perspective, really.

3 Likes

I don’t think there is a viable perspective that can show them dropping a titan on us that wasn’t there. I understand I could have missed something. The grid was a mess. But for everyone to not see an Erebus if it would be there?..

2 Likes