No it shouldn’t…
LESS pvp is the answer to 80%-85% newbie loss a month…the less they are shout ot of their ships the more will stay…and yes…it’s that simple…
You mean you are in opposition to the people that.if diamond rats are involved into pvp call it PVE?
At least one of this opinions has to be right,not sure which…
Prove it. And prove that they will stay long enough to offset the vets.
Show some actual figures, some studies, from a pvp mmo which at least has similarities to EVE.
What are you even talking about…?
So you have to study mmo buisness to be able to have an opinion?
I this what you are saying?
WOW…you know this is a game do you?
I mean…such post is ankward at least…and very very strange…
Traco
I’d suggest the answer is “less one-sided combat” rather than less combat.
The current security levels are a failed design. I don’t think they’re “the problem” as such though - just something that takes people’s eyes off what’s important: most gamers wont pay for certain kinds of negative experiences:
- One-sided combat
- Inability to control the time it takes to achieve tactical and/or strategic goals
- Too much grinding
- Difficulties with interpersonal relationships and grouping in multi-player games (the trust issue)
- etc
There isn’t a line that says “combat with permanent resource loss” there because I don’t think it’s one of the more important factors.
An informed opinion carries much more weight than an uninformed one.
4 Likes
So now I’m a little confused.
Is it being deemed “PVP” when NPCs start acting like human players?
Or is this some level of entitlement whereby these so-called “diamond rats” are too PVP-like to deal with? I say entitlement because if there are people claiming that the NPCs are too PVP-like, then we have a problem. It implies that there are players who think they are actually entitled to being able to mine belts all day without any more adversity than some low level NPC pirates that can be tanked or handled with drones.
It would indicate a huge long-standing problem with the game that I wish would just go away. Or to put it this way, if you think you are entitled to PVe “in a certain way” and any effort of CCP to make something more difficult is something of an affront to your “play style” or whatever then I say "This is how you end up with CODE. "
Because entitled spoiled brats even makes me want to start ganking industrials.
And another deep dark reality of Eve: null is safe. Deep inside the blue donuts and past the intel networks, where any intruder is going to get BLOPs dropped, lots of people mine and rat in safety. Oh, they have to dock up if a neutral shows up on that last-resort free intel channel known as local? Big effing deal.
Not only are these new NPCs bad for bots they are bad for bot-like players. Apparently. I never saw a diamond rat but I did lose a ship to some kind of monster serpentis escalation that put things on my overview I never saw before. 3 years into and out of null via wormholes with that ship, not a scratch, exploration the old way. Then one day, kaboom. It was one of the best times I had in game.
2 Likes
O:
*gasps*
I DON’T KNOW WHAT TO RESPOND TO YOUR AWESOME POST! D:
*toilet break*
… time passes as my brain is processing all these pieces of information you’ve triggered …
*returns*
Okay! Okay!! Hold on, I can do this!!
*inhales deeply*
3 Likes
You’re right! You’re not directly saying what you’re right about, but you’re DAMN RIGHT!
Correct! It’s what CCP wants, though!
Has so for many years, always makes steps there!
Small, slow steps!
Correct! 99.99% of all other games breed those self entitled wannabes! They don’t know any different! They’re always “heros” and they’re always winning and it’s never really a challenge (not counting Dark Souls types of game), because challenge means confrontation with failure. Nothing truly keeps them from doing what they want to do, including winning, and there never really is any significant effort needed!
YES!
YYYYYES!!
LINE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK 
CORRECT!
OF COURSE! *slams forhead*
Full Circle!
SOOOOoooo …
- CCP’s goal of equalisation of PvE and PvP is still in progress.
- More life-like (aka more realistically behaving) rats are equal to better content.
- More realistically behaving rats requires PvP fits.
- The best way to remove botters and RMTers is forcing them to fight or flee.
- Farmers and bears are barely distinguishable from botters.
Once PvP and PvE are equal both in fittings and experience, naturally …
- Farmers, botters and bears will either flee the game or adapt to the increased challenge, but in significantly reduced numbers.
- the global average level of playerskill will increase dramatically.
- a new breed of pseudo-carebear will whine about completely different things.
- WE CAN HAVE FUN AGAIN!
Wow!
BUT!
Why are you confused???
4 Likes
Here is where a lot of the problem is.
A lot of the more industry focused ships are designed as pure targets. CCP has not and keeps refusing to design them with as many options as other classes or any reasonable ability to fight. Basically they are putting modern cargo ships into the era of the Spanish main and wondering why people don’t find it fun sometimes.
This has two impacts.
The first impacts is it creates an expectation such defences are not needed, and that space is safe. If your hauler has decent guns on it, instead.you get an expectation even hauler have to fight.
The second is becoming apparent with diamond rats, as the industrials are getting ranked by diamond rats, and not in the fun wow that was a close fight way, but in the wtf just happened it was so fast I have no clue way.
Neither of these are particularly fun inducing experiences.
The solution is to redesign cargo ships in such a way that creates expectation of combat when flying them and of having to defend yourself (because we all know pure escorts never work because it’s a super boring duty and everyone hates it), but also in such a way that it’s not just a haulers are ten times tanker than anything else way so that it rewards more active gameplay and knowledge of game mechanics like overheating.
(bonus points for removing the hauler skills and folding them into the main ship lines at cruiser, bc and bs sizes so industrialists can also fly combat ships without even more training)
I see your points, but I think the conclusion you’ve reached is off the mark. I would suggest that escorts (currently) are boring because nothing happens. If there is the constant/continuous threat of NPCs engaging your hauler/mining fleet, then being an escort is no longer boring, because you’ve got things to shoot at.
I think everyone would agree that the transition from PvE to PvP in this game needs some love, I went from running L4s in my battleship, tanking fleets of ships and laying waste to everything, to dying horribly in a fire to a couple of cruisers.
It is… far from ideal… but I think the diamond rats (and ‘enhanced’ AI of sleepers/drifters/etc) is certainly a step in the right direction.
Regards,
Cypr3ss
Is it interesting facing a faceless enemy who can never lose. I would say no. The same reason you don’t see people chasing npc mining fleets constantly. Because it’s low reward and.you can never win.
Either two states exist. Diamond rats give low rewards, people wont take the opportunity cost instead of rafting missions etc. And my above exists.
Or diamond rats become the new isk farm. In which case it’s more isk to do instead of mine. Because mining is low isk. So it takes over.
Neither is good, because to make it worth the effort it has to be incursion levels of isk or better.
Ahh no, I’m going to disagree here. Why do they have to be unbeatable or the next big thing to farm? I don’t think it’s that simple.
How much is you’re Orca/Hauler/etc worth vs how much effort are people are willing to put in to keep it alive. It’s not a “we’ll farm these now or we won’t” value proposition, it’s a “we’ll follow this orca around system and kill anything that attacks it” vs “we won’t follow the orca around and don’t care if it gets ganked by NPCs”.
Regards,
Cypr3ss.
The thing is over time if it’s not the next big thing, it’s not worth the escorts time. Because they are giving up millions per hour to fight a battle that can never be won.
Sum that over a longer time period and it becomes not worth it. I “guess” you might be able to hit the super fine line in theory where that isn’t true and it’s worth it but not the next big thing, but if that line is hit for the average person it’s now the next big thing on farm for someone better.
And even if you hit that line you’ve made it so that an industriallists play is reliant on an escort, yet the escort can play whenever they want. Sorry your mate is off today so you get zero hours mining.
The only way it works as a game is making industrial type ships able to defend themselves. Now yes, they might have to work as a group, at which point you get channels to help people find each other to mine together forming, but you won’t get that same effect with escorts because why would I give up 10 million an hour to help some random guy. Assuming it is only that little even.
Well if the only reason people are playing is to make as much isk per hour as possible, then sure… but that’s not the only reason to play the game… and if it is the only reason they’ll get bored real fast, because it turns a game into a job.
You also seem to be assuming that an industrialist != escort and an escort != industrialist, but they could be.
Regards,
Cypr3ss.
1 Like
In terms of ship. If you do industry but are currently flying a PvP ship, then right now you are a pvper. etc.
Where I imagine is several miners who may or may not be in Corp but all flying together just for pack safety being each other’s escorts. I’m not imagining a super combat vessel, but maybe… 50 to 75% of a similar sized combat vessel but maybe less capacitor so they can’t fight for as long.
As for reasons, sure sometimes people do cooperate but long term it makes sense to gather resources efficiently. And not doesn’t make sense most of the time to sacrifice your income for some one you don’t even know. Maybe inside your corp you might but that goes back to making industrial players not play unless someone else is, while.combat players can play whenever.
In terms of, are you being serious? Have you never reshipped to better suit what’s happening in space at that particular point in time?
Sure if you’re fleet of procurers is large enough you’ve got a mass of drones to protect you, you may not need specialised combat ships.
Is it efficient if your ship keeps exploding to rats, long term?
If you want to keep running around in your 1 man corp yes you will have issues, it is a massively multiplayer game after all and no where did I say it would be easy, in fact I’m pretty sure that’s the point, as it makes it harder for the Bots.
You have some… interesting… theories regarding ‘combat players’. You realise that the diamond rats appear on dscan? So just like the combat players, industrialists now get to use dscan more often… nothing forcing them to ‘not play’, simply adapt. There are people that fit mining ships for PvP right now so that option already exists if you want to go the ‘combat industrialist’ route.
Regards,
Cypr3ss.
Bull ■■■■.
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