Heathens and heretics

Before I answer I want to stress there is a specific case where not including foreign spirits in what we believe to be real would do that for a Renouncer. I do not mean to imply all guarding against further influences would be that, nor do I mean to imply Renouncer ways are somehow objectively more real or better than other clans’ ways.

I also apologize for this public discussion of private matters and regret the distastefulness but I do in fact think that understanding of these issues by a wider audience benefits the tribes and am willing to suffer the embarrassment involved.

Alright. So some - a lot - of my ancestors lived all their lives in the Darkness. All they did was in that Darkness. All their thoughts and all their ways were influenced by it. They lived under the rule of the Amarr God.

Should I pretend that never happened? Should I forget what they went through? How do I guard against that influence if I don’t have a name for it?

The Amarr God’s influence on my family line is very clear and very strong. If I deny it exists and try to live as if it never happened or is not real, I am denying the reality my ancer
stors lived in, the reality of what they were, and making them an image of my dreams rather than of their true spirit.

Better acknowledge it, give it a name and an explanation, and then explicitly Renounce.


“This is the Amarr spirit. Here’s a four-page summary of why exactly we give him the middle finger at every chance. In conclusion, grr Amarr-thing, hat Amarr-thing.”
I’ve never really contemplated these things, which I can pretty much blame directly on Amarr-thing’s followers. That said, the whole Renouncer thing is starting to appeal to me. Like, yeah, we’re including him in the story so we can talk ■■■■ about him.
- A long rant consisting of approximately 68% expletive idioms has been edited out after this point.

The local shamans put it in somewhat more eloquently, but pretty much, yes.

Not that Renouncement is everything Renouncers believe in. For my own clan, concepts like Ladies Fate and Luck, Freedom the Vagabond, ghosts of the dead and unformed minds, and everything being an aspect of the All-spirit in the end, are what we carry in the everyday. But we Renounce, to remind ourselves that there are threats to them, and that we must never become such a threat to others outselves.

1 Like

Now I’m even more intrigued, but perhaps it’s best to continue that tangent in another setting.

1 Like

I do not pretend that the Days of Darkness never happened. I am not sure why you imply this. They inflicted the Days of Darkness upon our ancestors in the name of their god. They forced their god upon our ancestors. From my perspective, I owe it to my ancestors not to acknowledge the Amarrian god. That does not mean that I deny it’s existence, because I have no interest in that question. It simply means that I hate what has been done in it’s name, what is being done in it’s name and what will be done in it’s name to such a degree that I don’t want to hear or speak about it. I did so here because your words confused me greatly, and they continue to do so.

For my part, and Else may intend something similar… to acknowledge the resistance to and rejection of the Amarr god requires acknowledging what our ancestors rejected, what it was they were resisting. Refusing to acknowledge it, and the impact its followers have had upon us, leaves us no way to honor those who fought against it.

You cannot honor someone’s struggle without acknowledging what they fought against.


Are you a Renouncer? Because if you are not, I implied no such thing.

(emphasis added)

I most sincerely apologize for sounding like I intended to impose, and stop here.

1 Like

As always the coward accuses others of cowardice.

God is the only thing worthy of worship or respect Arrendis.

One day, after the long pain of your life, you will understand and weep. Pray that you will not be weeping alone.

The rest of your nonsense aside, I can assure you that she’s in no danger of being alone.


What makes an entity worthy of worship to your mind?

1 Like

My dyslexic ass read this as: “The only thing worthy of worship or respect is Arrendis”. I say we found this religion.

1 Like

Awww, love you too, hon. :slight_smile:

Is my ego not already overfed? C’mon, man. :stuck_out_tongue:


How can one believe in a god that forsakes them? God is a figment of imagination with no actual scientific factual evidence in. It is something that the Amarr use to put us in chains to ease their conscience.

Myths do not have to be real to be true.


If we’re being fair, the realm of Science is the physical while the realm of Faith is the spiritual. Attempting to use one to justify or explain the other will usually result in circular reasoning. It is best to allow them both to work simultaneously in compliment to gain a better understanding of truth.


To highlight Elsbeths point between heathen and heretic: a dominant belief among the Brutor clans, and indeed many clans of the other tribes, is that the Amarr god is just another spirit in a universe of spirits, functionally no different than say Pator, or the old mother. We do not hold that this spirit is specifically the main spirit of anything, only that its goals are to corrupt all and jealously horde as much as it can.

The legend goes that this spirit and those that is has corrupted once attempted to corrupt and claim the Matari people, but failed. In their failure they fled and found the Amarr.

1 Like

To you, that may be true, to most of the people who already worship and respect your god, that may be true. But if you ask say, the people in Sansha’s Nation, they would say Sansha is the only person worthy of worship and respect. Me personally, I find many people worthy of respect, though for different reasons and to different degrees, but there is nobody I personally view as worthy of worship, least of all your petty, insecure god who demands worship.

1 Like

My thinking is, it is technically not oblivion but conversion and re-cycling. But nothing religious about it. I have been raised far away from all that metaphysical stuff, I am only observing the effects without putting much faith into anything I dont know.

All those religious people wearing robes, praising something, they look silly to me.


When I experience the true death, I will go to the [Translator: Hall, gathering place, Clan Home} of my ancestors. If my actions in life are deemed worthy by them, then I shall have a place of honor where I will hunt and feast and prepare for the great battle that is to come at the end of the existence.

This topic was automatically closed 90 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.