That’s simply not true as a general statement. There are items where the buy/sell spread is larger. There are also quite a few items where the buy/sell spread has narrowed significantly, and in some cases all but disappeared. It seems to depend heavily on the specific demand for each item. As it should.
Well, both statements can be true. What I have observed is, you will now often have a string of small orders, while orders from larger traders are set with larger spread. The result is still the same as I said - more volatility (as the small orders wash away), and less predictability for producers and consumers.
Personally I am ok with the new system - I seem to make exactly the same amount of money as before. But it is obvious the reason I make money because the effective spread and price swings on items are larger.
I think you might have accidentally revealed the actual intended result of the market changes. Lower prices so stuff is ‘more affordable’. Whatever that means. Now we are getting mineral starvation in order to jack prices up again.
None of your solutions combat botting.
Why would this matter to a botter.
Because Botters cant afford omega? I think, all things considered, Botters are the most likely people to be able to afford omega accounts.
Again, botters are the least likely of all people to be unable to afford multiple accounts.
So Botters can also train that up and therefore make your suggestion irrelevant? Okay.
If none of the above, works against botters, why do you think a mix would help?
How many 0s do you have to add, in order to get to 1?
I lost about 30million isk before i realised the sales charges were not making sense to me.
returning after 3 years… and wow this change is major for station trading. it effectively removes station trading …
Welcome back, you’re wrong. It doesn’t. Hope this helps.
This quote just shows how ignorant CCP devs are. This was never the “optimal” strategy.
I quit playing Eve because they removed margin trading. Where I think money can still be made on the market, I don’t think taking out traders at the knees to avoid bots is a solution that will ever have a long-lasting positive effect. Bots will just be adjusted to take new advantages in the market.
I don’t regret not playing on my four accounts anymore. One of the justifications for the changes was to ensure that the market was more realistic in comparison to our current markets. That justification is kind of useless as an argument given that we’re playing a game. If I wanted to trade on a real/realistic market, I wouldn’t need Eve to do it.
I know four other people who quit for the same reason. Margin Trading was the real reason we all threw up our hands. It was an Omega-only skill so F2P bots wouldn’t have been a consideration. This choice from CCP seemed to be arbitrary and unilateral. If only it were capable of actually solving the problem it was intended to instead of just causing people to unsub. I won’t return to the game until this is changed, which means I will never play Eve again most likely.
Defend the choice all you want, we all tried to make the same profits we did before and no matter how we did the math it’s not possible. If 18 player accounts (in total) is an acceptable loss for CCP (and these are just the ones I can confirm) then so be it. I will simply play other games, and ones designed by developers who are thinking their decisions through instead of making a wild stab at a problem that requires an altogether different kind of solution.
Good luck to you all, especially those defending this decision, this continues to be a step backwards for Eve Online.
And nothing of value was lost.
Your telling me its bad, that they switched to a system with actual depth? Like the gameplay before was to adjust the price by 0,01 ISK and now you lost your fun trading, cause prices are actual dynamic and you actually need to think about the best price?
Why would a bot that could make billions play as alpha?
Adapt or die. Many people said they are actually making more now and the spread between buy and sell increased, so bigger margins.
How you figure they didnt think it through? Changing to a system that works great for stocks since decades sounds good.
If you want to compare the EvE market to the stock market, it would be like trading the DOW Jones. Reasonably predictable and for some, very boring.
What was lost with the broker fee change was the small cap/penny stock market. In other words, the speculation, the gamble, the risk. For some that part was the excitement of the EvE market. I always had kept some pocket change, 50 Bil or so for these type of trades, but after the change you are most likely to be beaten mercilessly by fees. It is very, very costly to unwind a bad decision/trade in EvE now, whereas in the real markets you can get away with limited losses if a bad trade is quickly identified.
Check the Munin prices and tell me with a straight face that you cant gamble on the market anymore.
only if people buy your crashing stocks? Just check out the recent negative oil price.
A:) I no longer do T2 ships, been burned too many times. B:) Hardly a gamble if you knew Muninns would be used for fleets in the null sec “war”. The same goes for T2 cap guns and certain cap mods, very predictable. The slower traders/manufacturers have now caught on and driving down the prices. Again predictable, but very good profit if you got in early.
Actually, I’ve made a lot of money off the crashing oil price. There are 2 leveraged ETF’s directly related to the oil price you can buy on the Toronto Stock Exchange, HOU and HOD. Very short term trades, but great money to be made if you understand the market.
If you don’t think Margin Trading had value, I would find it hard to believe that you’re a trader. Also, the market had a great deal of depth; making adjustments expensive to perform and not allowing us to control our own pricing as we choose on the market diminished my enjoyment of trade in Eve. If you’re satisfied with it, that’s great, I’m not.
As to your last point, if we were investing in stocks in Eve, I could see your point. But this is not a stock market, it’s a consumer market. Would you be happy if the price of milk could only be adjusted to 4 places of precision? Give me a break, you have no idea what you’re talking about.
In my country one liter of mild is 1,xx Euros. We only have 3 places of precision and i never felt the need for a 4th.
I know that Margin Trading was useful as a trader, but it also allowed a ton of stupid scams and made it easy to control huge amounts of the market with a few billion ISK. Im fine with letting it go.
Look guys, the market had some flaws. CCP decided that something had to be done. Rather than doing something intelligent, they just did some random stuff. Nothing new here.
Margin Trading did have value, but it also lead to an especially problematic scam, as the UI should never lie to a player.
I would personally have preferred it if they fixed margin trading to block scams (hide or mark any margin trade orders that cannot presently be fulfilled by the underlying wallet), and added the broker revamp as new skills, but that’s not what CCP elected to do.
I always thought this line of reasoning was weak. But whatever, the scam is gone.
I had a similar post,
I think some player market styles got destroyed by the new system included mine. But like somebody else said, i will have to adapt.
CCP did however state that they wanted to get rid of bottling, but instead of doing some precision changes it feels like they nuked a town because a house had a mouse problem.
I would like to say that the changes feels rushed, but i guess in the end of the day they felt the negative sides of this changes were worth it compared to the time it would have taken to come with a better solution.
As a new player but trying to do business in and out of eve these changes make no sense whatsoever, who thought it was a good idea to punish people for changing prices for real. People above me and the dreaded bogymen bots can just split their orders due to an abundance of characters wealth market orders you name it. Before I could freely change my prices and eek out competition between bigger fish especially on off times, now my margins are shot because if I change my order price 3-5 times im in the red. Also it feels like volume itself has fallen since the changes and looking at isk velocity graphs brings its own sadness compared to this time last year. What do I as a new trader even bother doing when changing my prices is punished, the market moves slow now, and I lost what little niche margins I can compete in as I grow. Ib4 just adapt bro or price items without consideration of margin so they can sell.
Cheer up. Buy some plex and either go into the cheese-arenas or needlejack out to null for some suicide-lulz. Why would a player-driven market be important?