High-sec suicide killing mining barges?


(Chili Klaus) #1

I’m not really new to EVE, but I haven’t played for a long time, so I suppose I’ll ask here. I’ve never done much mining in this game, but I’d like to do it, however I remember back when I played that mining in high-sec with a mining barge often led to being suicide killed. Is this still the case? I’m well aware that you’re never safe anywhere in EVE, I’m just asking if this is generally speaking the case.


(Quelza) #2

There’s occasional ganks, yes. But properly tanking your barge, staying in systems with a higher security status rating, and actually paying attention to your local and overview windows while mining dramatically reduce your chances of becoming a victim.


(CaseyLP) #3

It definitely happens from time to time but as long as you are prepared it’s not really a big deal.

Gankers tend to go after more expensive targets anyways, such as Exhumers, and those can be tanked quite a bit to survive a lot of damage.


(Memphis Baas) #4

It’s still the case.

You have some tools / options for evading:

  1. Open People and Places and add CODE alliance with red standings. This will show them with said red standings whenever they enter the same solar system as you. They often use “neutral” alts, and they aren’t the only ones suicide-ganking, but keeping track of them is a start.

  2. There are multiple barges, and a mining frigate or two (much more agile than the barges). The ore in high-sec is already crap, you don’t lose much if you use the tanked-up barge that mines slowly, instead of the paper-thin barge that mines a bit faster.

  3. Don’t mine in a busy system, stay away from the trade hubs too, if possible. Watch the list of pilots in the local channel, and be paranoid, esp. if you have “innocent” newbies mining next to your ship, and / or if the local list suddenly spikes (a whole fleet entering the system).

  4. Use d-scan to see what ships are in a sphere 14 au from you. The best cost/performance ratio for suicide-ganking is given by destroyers, esp. Catalyst, so if you see 2-3 destroyers entering your 14 au d-scan range, get out / dock at a station immediately.


(Wanda Fayne) #5

Go and learn how to gank. It is a valuable skill and the knowledge learned will aid you throughout your Eve experience.

Then go back to mining.


(erg cz) #6

Check dotlan map for high sec pockets, surounded by low sec. CODE rearely go there and you often can find low sec ore anomaly, that was not mined out in 30 minutes after it spawns.

If you stay out of caldari space and use properly tanked procurer, you are pretty much safe. Gankers hate to lose more, than they kill, and it will take at least 4 catalysts to kill your procurer before CONCORD will remove those risk-averse losers from the grid. 1 gank catalyst is about 10 milions. Your procurer should be less than 40 milions with fit and cargo. Simply not worth it unless you provoked attack.


Free head start for new comers - 250 000 extra skill points


(Chili Klaus) #7

Thanks for the responses. Doesn’t really sound worth it tbh. I was hoping I could afk-mine while studying, I didn’t really expect to sit looking at the screen when mining. Oh well.


(Quelza) #8

I mean you still can, and many do.

Just understand and accept that, when doing so, you might fall victim to a gank every once in a while.


(erg cz) #9

Follow my suggestions and you will find out you can, still can.


(Chili Klaus) #10

Thanks I think I’ll give it a go =)


(Uriel the Flame) #11

inb4 “You can always buy a mining permit.” :rofl:

Imo if you are not afk-mining and do some research then based on that prep accordingly you should be able to avoid 99% ganks that actually occur.


(Dom Arkaral) #12

Say you don’t afk and tank your ship, you’re pretty much Code-Compliant, except you don’t have a permit.

But your chances of seeing the danger come in are higher so you’ll always have time to avoid a gank…

Such is the way of the Code :wink:


(Uriel the Flame) #13

Well yes technically speaking if you are not afk while mining you already fulfill the will of their saviour. To be honest I kind of agree with that aspect of their philosophy, you should never be 100% safe anywhere in New Eden, unless you are docked in an NPC station that is.


(Chili Klaus) #14

I don’t expect to be 100% safe, just wanting to know what the general risk is. I’ll be semi-afk and won’t mind dying, as long as it’s not often. After some research though, it seems like nobody bother suiciding a tanked Procurer, and that’s good enough for me.


(Uriel the Flame) #15

With the 100% safety related comment I was replying to @Dom_Arkaral though the forum doesn’t specifically show a replied to indicator of any kind when you reply to a post right before.


(Kaivarian Coste) #16

You can also “mission mine”. Some missions have asteroids that can be mined. Don’t turn in the mission for seven days (or however long it is), and you’ll have your own private asteroids to mine, with the asteroids refreshed every downtime.

Gankers will only find you with combat probes, but unless you’re flying an exhumer, they’ll probably move on.


(Uriel the Flame) #17

As @Kaivarian_Coste mentions deadspace mining can provide additional safety, though of course as this is EVE you are never 100% safe anywhere unless you are docked in an NPC station.

Here is a useful resource if you decide to embark on the prospect of deadspace mining:
https://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MiningInMissions


(ShahFluffers) #18

Here is something I wrote on the old forums regarding ganking:

https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6544374#post6544374
Context: Someone in a mining ship had been ganked and was asking for help on how to avoid it happening again.

.

The writeup:
.

The general idea behind Suicide ganking is to blow up a target ship before the NPC police arrive.

The NPC police, called CONCORD, will respond to any “illegal” act of aggression in high-security space (1.0 to 0.5 space).
This response is purely punitive (the NPCs don’t care about you, only making the offender pay for their craven act) and will result in the destruction of the offender’s ship 100% of the time.
Avoiding this punishment or delaying in any way is seen as an exploit and will result in a ban from the GMs.

More than that… there is no amount of tank that can mitigate the damage coming from CONCORD. These NPCs basically use a “death ray” to wipe out percentages of the offender’s HP (alongside regular, “standard” damage).

Now… the response times for COCNORD are thus:

  • 5 seconds in 1.0 space
  • 6 seconds in 0.9 space
  • 8 seconds in 0.8 space
  • 10 seconds in 0.7 space
  • 13 seconds in 0.6 space
  • 15 seconds in 0.5 space
  • No response in 0.4 or lower space

What the Suicide Gankers do is choose a ship with high damage potential and max out that stat. Destroyer class ships are generally preferred, though they can use bigger ships if they want to take out tankier, more high value targets.

Let us use a Catalyst as an example as it is the preferred ship for most ganks (and the gankiest destroyer in general).

[Catalyst, Ganking Ship Example]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I

5MN Microwarpdrive I
[empty med slot]

Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
[empty rig slot]

With max skills applied and the weapons overloaded, this ship can pump out about 400 damage per second.
Using the above response times, that is…

  • 2000 damage in 5 seconds in 1.0 space
  • 2400 damage in 6 seconds in 0.9 space
  • 3200 damage in 8 seconds in 0.8 space
  • 4000 damage in 10 seconds in 0.7 space
  • 5200 damage in 13 seconds in 0.6 space
  • 6000 damage in 15 seconds in 0.5 space

So your ship has to effectively tank that much damage, in that amount of time, in order to survive.

Now please bear in mind… these numbers are all “upper limit” numbers. A ganker may do less damage if conditions are not optimal (which we will get into in a bit).

Now why do Suicide Gankers do this? Everyone has a reason, but they basically boil down to three things:

  • For Profit: This type of ganker is generally selective and will attack people they think they can make a profit off of. They try to calculate the value of their gank ship(s) versus the value of the potential loot. If they can potentially break even or turn a profit, they will mobilize and make an attempt.

  • Make a Statement: Some of your mining competitors may not be keen on “sharing” asteroid belts with you. They will thus nuke you (or hire someone to nuke you) and use your wreck to set an example to others.

  • For Giggles: Some people simply want to see the world burn. Cost and/or political fallout are not factors to these kinds of gankers. And if you mobilize against them… well… they like that too. They basically want to make things explode for the sake of things exploding.

What can you do?
There are a few things you can do. None of them are silver bullets, but they will stack the odds more in your favor.

  • Tank your ship: As pointed out above, the gankers are trying to apply as much damage as possible in as short a time as possible. If you have more HP than they have damage (even 1 more HP can make a difference), you will survive.
    ------ The best tanks you can fit for this purpose are called “Buffer Tanks.” The general idea is to load up on raw HP (see: Shield Extenders, Armor Plates) and increase your damage resistances (see: Adaptive Nano Plating, Shield Amplifiers).
    ------ “Active Tanking” is the act of fitting an Armor Repairer or Shield Booster to “repair” or “absorb” damage. This is generally not preferred against Suicide Ganking as it may not be fast enough to counter the amount of incoming damage.

  • Keep moving at all times: All weapons have a formula that takes speed and range into account. If you mess with either of those variables, you can mitigate the some of the incoming damage.
    ------ Orbit the asteroid you are mining. Not only will this mess with the ganker’s ability to apply damage but it also adds the asteroid as a potential obstacle that can block their flight path to you, further frustrating their efforts.

  • Stay at range: You may want to stay close to the rocks. I get it. It looks cooler. It feels safer. But it also gives a ganker a potential warp-in point. When you stay out at range… you force them to fly to you. This can give you the precious few seconds you need to warp away to safety.

  • Don’t AFK, use D-Scan: Not much to say about this. I know mining is boring and all that, but stay alert and keep an eye on your Directional Scanner for potential ganking ships (you will be scanning for destroyers within 1 AU of where you are).

  • Get a tankier ship: Take a look at the Procurer. Gankers hate that ship.


(Dom Arkaral) #19

I love that you basically wrote the Code with your tips :wink:


(Anne Dieu-le-veut) #20

You forgot to figure in the pre-pulling of CONCORD, which gives gankers an extra 5 or 6 seconds. Also, Cats almost never fit MWD. Usually sensor boosters for extra sensor strength to help foil jams and/or scan resolution to lock the pod faster. They may also have a scram instead of a 2nd sensor booster.