Hot cyno counter

[Warplan_Ettfor]

I was thinking about the idea that everything in Eve has a counter… But the cynosural field generator is not completely counterable. I know there is a systemwide cyno jammer and a mobile cyno jammer, but these are modules for prevention.

What about a module that will interrupt and prevent a cyno from being lit on a targeted ship?

The cool part about this is that it would have potential benefits for both attacking AND attacked ships. If a skiff has one fit, and is hot dropped, it could target the cyno and prevent a hot drop, (if it gets it off in time), or even limit how many ships get through (and, just to make it interesting, any ship in the middle of a jump when it is shut down is randomly placed in system… or maybe in the constellation? evil laughter).

But a hunter ship could also get a lock on a target (say, a ratting carrier), and prevent it from dialing the bat phone, calling every capital within five light years, making a slower response. (And likewise, scattering responding ships caught in flight when the cyno is shut down.)

This would make bait ships more effective, too.

In general, such a module would make many aspects of ganking PvP, both attacking and being attacked, more dangerous.

IMHO, it would probably take more power and CPU than a cyno, and possibly require the usage of some fuel (liquid O?) Given that the cyno is a high slot, why not make the cyno cracker a high slot item, too?

I see some real possibilities for new strategies, moves and counter moves, in this.

[Lugh_Crow-Slave]

sounds like a great way for the many to ■■■■ on the few.

no thanks

[Cindy_the_Sewer]

Force projection already has been nerfed hard. Nerfing the ability to protect your own space is stupid.

[Cade_Windstalker]

@Warplan_Ettfor

I was thinking about the idea that everything in Eve has a counter… But the cynosural field generator is not completely counterable. I know there is a systemwide cyno jammer and a mobile cyno jammer, but these are modules for prevention.

Everything has a counter, but no where does it ever guarantee you that the counter will be 100% reliable or effective.

Cynos are hard to prevent and easy to use intentionally because a fight happening is pretty much always more fun for everyone involved then one not happening because someone stopped a Cyno. CCP would much rather encourage something like a bait-Skiff to have its own friends and Cyno as protection rather than a quick and easy “no Cyno for you” button.

[Warplan_Ettfor]

It would be more fun for the skiff to tackle the cyno ship and kill it, while preventing the cyno.

[Ptraci]

Cyno has a counter: shoot the cyno ship.

[Keno_Skir]

@Cindy_the_Sewer

Force projection already has been nerfed hard.

Not anywhere close to hard enough.

[Cade_Windstalker]

@Keno_Skir

Not anywhere close to hard enough.

I feel like if this is how you feel about force projection in Eve you’re pretty much destined to be disappointed, considering it’s been nerfed from “anywhere in the galaxy in 15 minutes” to a max range of basically “halfway into the region next door in 15 minutes, all the way to the end of the region next door if you don’t mind getting stranded for a day”.

[Frostys_Virpio]

@Ptraci

Cyno has a counter: shoot the cyno ship.

Or light your own and drop a bigger hammer on them.

[Keno_Skir]

@Cade_Windstalker

I feel like if this is how you feel about force projection in Eve you’re pretty much destined to be disappointed

Yeah that’s fair enough I’m comfortable that all things cannot be how i want them. My one liner was in fact mostly to do with jump drives in general, although i do feel cap range could do with some work still in current conditions. I blame jump drives for the loss of a huge amount of gate traffic that once generated content while supplying nulsec.

As for this threads proposal i think it could be both fun and interesting, though i think it would likely end up overpowered.

[Cade_Windstalker]

@Keno_Skir

Yeah that’s fair enough I’m comfortable that all things cannot be how i want them. My one liner was in fact mostly to do with jump drives in general, although i do feel cap range could do with some work still in current conditions. I blame jump drives for the loss of a huge amount of gate traffic that once generated content while supplying nulsec.

As for this threads proposal i think it could be both fun and interesting, though i think it would likely end up overpowered.

That’s a pretty good attitude to have about it

Though the thing I would point out about all that gate traffic is that most of it was one-sided ganks, and that makes for pretty boring “content” for both participants. Plus there still is a fair amount of gate traffic, it’s just all within ‘safe’ boundaries of player empires or blue space, because moving around gate to gate in hostile territory unless you’re intending to die is suicidal.

[Keno_Skir]

@Cade_Windstalker

Though the thing I would point out about all that gate traffic is that most of it was one-sided ganks, and that makes for pretty boring “content” for both participants. Plus there still is a fair amount of gate traffic, it’s just all within ‘safe’ boundaries of player empires or blue space, because moving around gate to gate in hostile territory unless you’re intending to die is suicidal.

I mean, pretty much every fight in EvE is a one sided gank. If it’s not a one sided gank someone screwed up the plan. The plan (or failure of the plan) is the content though, and supply convoys used escorts to provide security. Being able to magic supplies in and out of an area that used to require large scale stategic movement to supply safely has only served to remove ships from space, which can never be a good thing.

[Lugh_Crow-Slave]

@Keno_Skir

Being able to magic supplies in and out of an area that used to require large scale stategic movement to supply safely has only served to remove ships from space, which can never be a good thing.

that’s a very narrow view of it. as someone who used to do logistics before JF I can tell you there are more ships in space now than there were. being able to get supplies up in an hour is much better than it taking an afternoon. this puts fits on ships and ships in roams rather than all in a cargo bay

[Keno_Skir]

@Lugh_Crow-Slave

as someone who used to do logistics before JF I can tell you there are more ships in space now than there were.

I disagree. Supply traffic used to add a realistic layer of tactics for large groups and increase the feeling of activity in the game generally.

[Lugh_Crow-Slave]

Only with idiots.

Smart groups had maybe three other ships besides the hauler and none fit for combat. If something looked sketchy the hauler just went to a deep safe and logged off.

There is still supply traffic now. From noobs that don’t understand low sec or even more fruitful in blue space. If you really want to hunt haulers target a hostile groups space. We hit them in provi all the time there are even freighters used.

There was talk of nerfing JFs when the jump balance hit. CCP the CSM and most of the player base rightly concluded it would result in null being starved of content not adding content.

CCP agreed they would look at nerfing it if and when null became self sufficient

[Keno_Skir]

@Lugh_Crow-Slave

Only with idiots.

Smart groups had maybe three other ships besides the hauler and none fit for combat. If something looked sketchy the hauler just went to a deep safe and logged off.

There is still supply traffic now. From noobs that don’t understand low sec or even more fruitful in blue space. If you really want to hunt haulers target a hostile groups space. We hit them in provi all the time there are even freighters used.

There was talk of nerfing JFs when the jump balance hit. CCP the CSM and most of the player base rightly concluded it would result in null being starved of content not adding content.

CCP agreed they would look at nerfing it if and when null became self sufficient

Could you explain how jump drives that skip gates entirely and bounce from tethered citadel to tethered citadel have put more content in space. My point is that meaningful supply traffic outside of blue zones used to be a thing and isn’t now. Your suggestion that hunting noobs who don’t understand mechanics is just as much content as hunting vets who know the game is just flawed. I’m not saying there are no targets currently (though there are a lot less), i’m saying large areas of nulsec are much lower in general traffic and “life” than previously and that this is a bad thing for the vibe of the game.

[Cade_Windstalker]

@Keno_Skir

I mean, pretty much every fight in EvE is a one sided gank. If it’s not a one sided gank someone screwed up the plan. The plan (or failure of the plan) is the content though, and supply convoys used escorts to provide security. Being able to magic supplies in and out of an area that used to require large scale stategic movement to supply safely has only served to remove ships from space, which can never be a good thing.

Quite a few fights aren’t completely one-sided though. For small gangs and solo players quite a few use a kiting ship and try to pick off enemies before they’re either killed or forced to run, and brawls between small gangs can be a lot of fun with neither side really and truly losing, especially if one side went out with the intent of getting a fight and whelping.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen or heard about escorted supply convoys in Eve though. That’s just never been practical since there’s very little an “escort” can do to actually protect the ships they’re running with. Most people just use scouts and webbing alts if they need to move something that can’t jump, and if they run into something nasty with the scout they just safe log-off or dock up the freighter.

Also Jump Freighters were introduced all the way back in 2008 with Trinity, and they were so expensive they were alliance level assets long before they were personal ones, so we’ve had this kind of alliance logistics for almost twice as long as we haven’t at this point. Longer if you count the time before Eve had anything like a modern Alliance structure to move good around at scale in Null.

@Keno_Skir

Could you explain how jump drives that skip gates entirely and bounce from tethered citadel to tethered citadel have put more content in space.

Also, this specifically, CCP have said they’re not entirely happy with the current Citadel logistics chains and are looking at some kind of restrictions to mitigate the level of safety these provide somewhat.

[Keno_Skir]

@Cade_Windstalker

Also, this specifically, CCP have said they’re not entirely happy with the current Citadel logistics chains and are looking at some kind of restrictions to mitigate the level of safety these provide somewhat.

Yeah that’s my point. You can (and should) extend the same logic to jump drives in general.

[Cade_Windstalker]

@Keno_Skir

Yeah that’s my point. You can (and should) extend the same logic to jump drives in general.

But the same logic doesn’t apply to jump drives in general. The gap in level of safety between “chain of Citadels” and “Just a Jump Drive” is huge, which is why CCP has a problem with the former and not the latter.

[Ptraci]

@Cade_Windstalker

CCP have said they’re not entirely happy with the current Citadel logistics chains and are looking at some kind of restrictions to mitigate the level of safety these provide somewhat.

Lazy coder meets lazy player.

Said “safe logistics chains” are only safe because players are too lazy to attack them. So CCP will probably introduce yet another halfassed change which will have even more unforseen consequences hastening EVE’s death spiral.

Seriously CCP - you cannot make lazy players less lazy. People are not doing the things you want them to be doing because the things you want them to be doing are not FUN. Remember fun? It’s usually the reason people play games. To have fun.

Make destroying logistics chains fun and you won’t be able to stop people from smacking them the minute they pop up. Of course you won’t get any fun from the devs who created the game commonly known as “the second job” and “spreadsheets in space”.

In EVE fun is created by the players, NOT the devs.