I really don’t understand why people want capships not to be… well… capships, i.e. big, bad, end-game ships. Maybe you think the skill train is so long, you think you’ll never sit in one? Or maybe you just like smaller ships, and have no desire to sit in a big end-game ship? Or maybe you don’t think beyond today, or next week, i.e. right now you’re far away from considering end-game ships, and aren’t about to consider it anytime soon, so you don’t care what happens to them? Either way, I don’t get the mindset.
Why not have something to aspire to? And if you don’t want something to aspire to, why not let others have something to aspire to? Personally, I don’t want the thing I aspire to to end up being a wet noodle once I sit in it. I’d rather it be the thing it was meant to be and is supposed to be, a CAPITAL SHIP for heaven’s sake.
I’ve thought of game design issues for literally years. I actually have a game design manifesto I’ve written, which sort of encapsulates all the things I’ve learned and thought about over the years. At any rate, at the top of the list is hard counters and so-called defined roles. It’s a mistake. It’s why I hated Starcraft 2. Units existed to simply counter other units, meaning if those countered units didn’t exist, there was no need to build the unit which countered those units. The counters were indeed so hard that just the fear of your opponent building Xs would stop you from building Ys at all.
At any rate, rock paper scissors, defined roles, the mentality of ‘counters,’ etc. all SUCKS as far as game design goes. I’m not saying there can’t be a unit here or there with some kind of role or specialization (exploration or mining ships come to mind), but IN GENERAL it’s a bad idea. In summary, no, I don’t want carriers with defined role X, dreads with defined role Y, and certain subcaps with defined roles to kill caps. It’s just stupid, dumb, ignorant, and unnecessary.
You are really living in another world, with a perspective that just doesn’t match reality. Subcaps are used far, far more than capships. They don’t need ‘more room’ to play with.
I didn’t pigeonhole you to start out. However, the fact is, you are just a biased capship hater, for whatever motivation or reason - e.g. you got killed by a capship drop, got angry about it, and now you want the game changed to provide you some recompense or revenge.
So that is why for a cap drop should be a counterdrop with counter-cap ships. As simple as that. But then drops would have to change to some structured fleets of counter-counter-cap ships. And those would have to be countered with counter-counter-counter-cap ships, like caps. Its when we would have to think about building caps in high sec to move them to low sec by gate. Also would need a ban of weapon firing or fighter use in high sec. Only traveling possible and mining.
No. I think there’d be a lot more people dying out in null, in fact, I think there’d be a lot more people dyign everywhere and a lot faster. There would be a lot more fights, they’d be everywhere, tons more content. Also less lag and tidi because ships + pods would be destroyed at a much faster pace and players be back at their spawn points.
Also a ton more people would participate in them, hell you’d even have corps from HS daytripping for NS battles.
LOL, great. So one guy thinks capships need to be reigned in because they cause too much dying, and the other guy thinks they need to be reigned in because they don’t cause enough.
CONCORD is not intervening while you fight with wartarget. Actually this is probably why CCP dont want to touch this, what rules would have to apply. I imagine them saying “Lets rather not stir that ”…
I thought you were done with this thread, and now i come back to see youve got more nonsense here than ever. Youve forced me to post, lest the collective IQ of humanity drop a couple points.
Seriously. Like, seriously. Are you talking about 6 marauders or something? Cause a dread, fitted, costs anywhere from 3.5 to 4 billion isk. 6 marauders, unless they are really poorly fit, will almost always win against a dread. Not even discounting the fact that the marauder can always micro jump drive out to safety if it gets low, and that a dread is powerless to chase it down, meaning that the marauder will almost always never die.
But im convinced that you were talking about regular battleships. And yes, 6 fully fit battleships will probably be more expensive than an empty, unfit dread. In which case, battleships win, 10/10 times.
Youve never flown or fit a dread before, have you?
Since youre talking about dreads 2-4 shotting battleships, now i know that you werent talking about marauders. And you cant be surprised that a ship that cost 3 times the amount of 6 ships, does well against it when its fit specifically to do so.
But thats kinda the thing. Carriers are good against ALL subcaps. HAW dreads are only good against cruisers and above. They cant apply damage well to all subcaps. A fleet of destroyers can utterly wreck a dread, with the dread firing and hitting nothing.
They already are. Dreads are only specialized against either larger subcaps OR capitals/structures. Not both at the same time. Youre talking as if they do both, all the time. Its either one or the other, and if youre fitting for one, youre utterly f*cked when the other comes along.
Doubt. I dont beleive youve been in null for any meaningful amount of time, or that youve done anything meaningful while you were there. Because your arguments show how utterly incompetant your line of reasoning, is.
There are two scenarios to consider with your argument, and ill take a look at both.
For the first, were talking about small scale engagements, the “hot drops” that you refer to in your original post. This sort of thing happens ALL the time in null. People drop in caps to engage things like rorquals all the time. Zero counter, because its done quick and the person is caught off guard. There is no counter drop.
Second, is the large fleet engagements. But HAW dreads arent dropped, because theyre screwed if the opponent drops regular dreads or supers. Again, dreads are either cap killers or large subcap killers, and not both at the same time.
In both cases, HAWs arent a problem. But the first scenario is of particular interest, because it demonstrates that having a large cap fleet doesnt mean you dont get hotdropped on. It happens all the time, and its rarely caught because they are so fast and good at it.
I dont understand. Wouldnt this happen even if they didnt have HAW dreads? If they were being dropped on by carriers, the same thing would happen. And yet youve said that youd be okay with that. But, somehow, doing this with dreads is a bad thing.
Your argument is either delusional, or hypocritical. You choose.
More of the same, ridiculous, completely irrational, devoid-of-a-sense-of-reality argument. Heres a shocking twist to your story, that includes a happy ending. Are you ready for it? I want you to be ready for the shocking revelation that im about to drop on you.
You can buy capitals all around lowsec.
You dont need to build them to have them.
You can build them in regular stations. You dont need an azbel to build a dread or carrier.
Wow! Shocking! I never knew that!!! Its been like that for a while, but still. Amazing, i know.
But the greatest delusional comment from you, was made at the very end of your post.
Youve just made the argument to increase cap jump ranges, in favor of more cap use, to be extended to even the remote corners of lowsec.
And now, youre saying the problem is too much cap use.
Are you kidding me? How irrational can you get, that you would suggest implimenting something that you argue against?
The scenario you present, is also nonsensical. This entire discussion from you, has been nonsensical, to say the least. Ive flown many, probably more than you, fleets in low and null. More people in low, die to subcaps than HAW dreads. I dont think the numbers are even comparable. This just isnt a problem that 99 percent of people going to low, encounter.
On any given day, if youre afk mining in lowsec, are you more likely to die from subcaps, or a HAW dread? If youre travelling through lowsec, are you more likely to die to a gatecamp of subcaps, or a HAW dread? The numbers arent even comparable here.
This is what’s called a lie. It’s the same lie naive “change is always good” people tell themselves so that they don’t have to think about consequences. This is also why ‘change’ people never take any responsibility for the negative impacts of changes they advocate form (in game, or in real life).
“Change” can be good or bad and it is usually good and bad. The people who crave ‘change’ the most are the ones who miss out on the idea that what exists right now might be ok (or it might be the best you can hope for, or it can be something in actual need of change, etc etc).
They are STUCK in ‘change’ gear which is why the world half the reason is pretty F’d up right now. The other half are the people who are stuck in “never change anything ever” gear. There is no flexibility, no examination of the good and bad of a situation, just people blindly following there preferences.
So what is the lie? That you used your real life ideology to totally generalize like you just did again?
There are no “change is always good” people. You are halluzionating them in order to never have to deal with any arguments for any change ever. Well, don’t deal with it, live in denieal. It’s your choice.
Guess what, there are people who think that it’s pretty good right now and they still want to improve, they want change to go beyond the realm of the now possible, they want things to get even better. And - crazy revelation - these might be the same people who think that other things are pretty bad right now and they also need improvement.
“Change” how you imagine it, is never a concept for concrete things to be pushed forward. People mostly have specific ideas what should be done and more often than not, these ideas are unfinished, not refined enough or simply not grasping the situation. Is that bad? Certainly not. How else can we reach a more refined view on how things are actually working for the vastly different kind of players and game experiences in EVE, if not by discussing them?
Well this kind of thinking, where it exists, is certainly a problem. However I think it’s maybe more the outcome of the peoples everyday life experience. Those ideas are born by fear of uncertainty, not so much for the love of how it is. I think for some people that is totally understandable. The other side might be an attempt to keep up hope where hope really doesn’t help.
But that’s exactly why I don’t like OP’s opinion being put into some “change” box. It’s a specific set of experiences and questions and one doesn’t have to agree with them or OP’s suggestion to “solve” something. The best way to disagree is to provide data or such that shows a different view on the matter. There was no need for generalizing here, as neither OP nor anyone else claimed “change” to be a general solution to anything.
Only thing that is not changing is that change happens. Even when CCP doesnt want to take action on their end, things change in game. CCP Larrikin stated that not everything is allright with null.
Reason caps are op is cause they can be insured and their tech I modules are immensely stronger. A ■■■■ fit Chimera will mess up a marauder worth way more (counting insurance) for example. Too much bang for buck and too little fucks given for loss especially cause botsec alts.
How about just defanging it? The fighter bay is small as crap. And its still the worst carrier in the game.
Also good luck killing a Marauder solo in a carrier. Except it has a shitfit and the pilot is a little…dense.
Wait how the 2nd part? I mean all shitfit carriers have full subcap neuts on highs I mean how wouldn’t you kill a marauder with 3k dps and neuts exactly?
Because they are stupid rich and have the ships. But mostly because despite the claims that people are looking for “guud fights” they don’t want to risk losing a ship so they bring caps to kill sub-caps. Few people will enter a fight that’s fair unless they make a mistake.
It’s less about being able to kill the marauder, and more about being able to kill it before you run out of fighters. Which you probably will.
No carrier should be running more than 1 or possibly 2 utility neuts if they’re dropping on subcaps. A full rack of neuts is simply stupid, because you trade mitigation of your single greatest weakness (fighters being a limited resource) for something that will only help in certain instances. Against marauders sure, it’s useful. Against many other boats, definitely not.
Then you have to consider the possibility of a counter-drop. A full rack of heavy neuts is going to be a ■■■■■■■ hilarious lossmail.
”…
lol