That’s what I ask when I see how easily corporations make fools of customers nowadays…
At any rate, the game is what it is. If you’re itching to uninstall, I’m afraid none of us could convince you not to.
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You don’t delete this game. This game deletes you.
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I understand that. And the topic was created to convey the problem to the developer from the newbie’s side. If they care, something will change for the better.
Nobody asked for this.
I’ll write it again just in case:
Finding Deepflow Rift is not difficult, and finding it while standing still, the player gets at least 20 million. Not counting the millions received for finding other hidden anomalies. And they do not need to fly in lowsec. Now look at the results of my expeditions and the time spent on them and flights in lowsec.
Many people start offering what they like, why? I want to do what I want. Therefore, if the developers read the messages. Let them somehow fix this situation.
I want the results of the expeditions to not be much different from the scanning. And in the conditions of execution in lowsec, much better. Because my results, to put it mildly, shocked me. How could such nonsense be allowed at all.
But now seriously.
This is what I am saying all the time. But invested players in this game don’t want to hear this.
This gameplay will not lure any new players. In fact it will deters them.
We, old players who had spent thousands of hours in this game and thousands of €/$ in this game are willing to accept it, but I don’t see any new player get hooked into EVE with such stupid design where you spend 3 hours getting ■■■■ and then there is one jackpot site where you get 100-300mil.
DEDs are not different in this regard, tried about 6 recently and neither drop anything but the garanteed npc loot. So I don’t bother anymore.
If CCP wants to keep new players they should start here. I am not saying give 50mil into each highsec data/relic site, but getting less than 3 mil per site feels really horrible given how rare they are and that you can spend 20 minutes just finding one. Lowsec is not much better - you will waste time on FW/AEGIS/ESS sites and the everage loot is 5mil too. And the risk is much higher. And doing DED in lowsec is just nonsense. Even if you somehow snuck in through perma gatecamps in hs->ls, it won’t take while until Curse or Arazu shows next to you and you are blobbed/dropped. At best you can keep your ship but they will prevent you from finishing the site.
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Now seriously. When I started the game it took weeks to afford my first Battlecruiser. That was 38 Million ISK back then. It took around a year to be able to make like 60m/hour in a Battleship in L4 missions.
Exploration isn’t meant to make newbs in cheap and skillless lowbieships spacerich by solving a few hacking games and giving them hundreds of millions in the process. It’s about showing them what is out there and giving them the abilities to locate and map content which they can then access and extract later. With a group, with high skill and or high value equipment and lots of knowledge.
Like the gas and sleeper sites you found. Expecting that the newbie with this cheap scanfrig can realistically make hundreds of millions a day is ridiculous.
This argument makes no sense. What has newbies to do with this? The gameplay is same for veterans if they choose to do it in highsec and lowsec. 1 site per 6 jumps that gives less than 2 million, what is point of that?
And what has making players “spacerich” has to do with it? Exploration is already decent income. Solo mining with retriever in highsec sure won’t net you 160mil in 2 hours. It is just awful design where its garbage 10 times and then you hit jackpot. New, youger players have no patience for that and even I don’t find it fun to find carbon in 2 cans, nothing in third and 200k salvage in fourth.
EDIT: As carebears says, ISKs are fun. And it works. Human psychology. It is much better to find 10 times 10mil than 9 times 1mil and once 91mil although the end result is the same (expect not everyone has time and patience to do so many sites so he actually gets something that day).
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Exactly. Everything is much more expensive now. Battlecruisers? 100mil (tripple). Battleships? 240mil (tripple iirc but not sure). Retriever? 60mil (double´).
Back when prices were lower, perhaps finding 200k ISK is relic site didn’t feel so bad. Now it definitely feels bad. Same with DEDs which drops just 1-3mil guaranteed NPC item. Both are really decent income in the long run, but the lows are really discouraging. Especially when you as new player don’t know the highs yet.
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Of course it does. Your income should progress with your investment in equipment, skill, risk and cooperation.
A newbro (T1 Scanfrig, level 3-4 Skills in scanning and hacking) invests barely 10M in his ship and only a few days in skills. He should expect not more than 5 to 20M per hour, jackpot drops included. Thats an average of 12.5M/hour, newbro Miners in HS in a venture would be glad to make that. And they too would lose ships if they dare to go into low/null/Whs.
Once he upgrades to specialized fits, implants, T2 ships, his profits ca go up. But he is no newbie any more at this point. And only if he dares to bring a blinged T3Cruiser+Clone+MaxSkills into the most dangerous environments he deserves to make a fortune. Because thats what all other professions have to do as well.
Hacking is rng, maybe CCP should communicate that better. And if you find a 200k ISK relic site, chances are high that someone cherrypicked it and left only the crap. If CCP would increase the rewards it would change nothing, you would still find lots of theSe trash sites and the cherrypickers get even richer.
Do you want cherrypicking to be fixed? How? Despawn the site once one container is hacked and respawn it full? Hacking income would skyrocket and cherrypickers would still cargoscan the contis and ignore the crap.
You’d need to make the containers scanner-immune so nobody can be sure he hasn’t missed a jackpot unless he hacks every single container.
Data Sites are crap for years, CCP didn’t update the loot tables. Even in C5 C6 wh sites its not worth hacking them, after the sleepers are removed. But that won’t help newbros a bit. Maybe if CCP woud completely remove those old research agent mechanic, the datacore prices would go up again to make those sites worth spending time.
But, after all, like with any other profession, most of the most lucrative exploration content isn’t and shouldn’t be accessible for newbs, so yes, they will keep finding stuff they can’t yet access and that will drive their average income down a lot, because they spend time finding sites that are worthless for them. And thats the point where they realize they should work for a corporation, because these pay for scanning lucrative or useful content, no matter if the nowbro can use it himself. The corpmates can, and they share the profits.
You can do whatever you want indeed!
If you want to get the rewards like Deepflow Rifts, do Deepflow Rifts.
If you want to do something else, do something else.
Don’t complain that something else has different rewards than Deepflow Rifts. It was your choice to do something else instead of Deepflow Rifts.
Please don’t let me stop you from deleting this game. From your reactions in this thread I get the feeling this game might not be the one for you. You might be happier without this game.
Go ahead and delete!
I did my first DED (a 6/10) like a month ago, got some loot worth 400m. Was pretty nice. I asked in my alliance and heard it was usually much less though, and I got lucky.
Luck is a big part of the gameplay in EVE.
I think that’s good, it keeps gameplay and rewards less predictable and sometimes gives the rush of a big haul when you do get lucky. Getting the same average value every play session would sound boring to me. Luck does mean that sometimes I go out scanning for an hour and ‘waste’ my time making 30M ISK. Mind, such a value is still plenty for a newbie character, but for someone with max scanning skills and a T2 ship it’s not much. Luckily you can sometimes also find 30M ISK worth of items in a single data site can.
I’m not complaining. This is my experience in completing expeditions, which has discouraged me from entering the game. And I hope that something will change in the future.
The forum will be better off without your useless messages. So feel free to leave the forum!
Did you read what I wrote??? It doesn’t matter if you are new player or veteran. It doesn’t matter if you use cheap t1 frigate or blinged Stratios, the frequency is the same, the loot is the same.
It just doesn’t work like that with exploration. You won’t get better loot anywhere if you get your skills higher and you won’t get better loot if you bring more expensive ship with bling fit. You only slightly increase how many sites can you do per hour and it won’t be many more even with perfect skills if we are talking about high and low.
This content doesn’t scale the same way how security missions or mining scales. Yes hacking is easier the better skills you have. Scanning a bit too, but not much. The only upgrade worth the price of ship for exploration is ship capable of warping cloaked. So t2 exploration ships, Astero or Stealth bomber. And that is only in low and null to avoid getting caught at gate. In WH it is pointless and on the contrary, if you are doing data/relic in wh it is better to do it in t1 exploration frigate since you can’t prevent the loss if the hunters are already waiting for you there with Sabre.
There are very few exploration sites where you need something better than frigate, but they are typically not doable solo or with same ship and you need to reship. WH sleeper sites - too big loot that no exploration ship can take out. AEGIS/ESS - site for Marauders, and coming back in explo frigate after. Only gas sites would be doable in exploration-fitted t3c or blinged stratios, but it is again better to just come in Drake+ and return with exploration frigate after npcs are killed.
Also, the OP mentioned combat sites, DED sites, that is very similar and he might probably already have the best ship and good skills. Again this is not a content that scales with skills and ships, if we are taling about highsec.
No. This is absolutely standard in highsec. If you don’t know that, it is clear that you are discussing something you have no experiences with.
Exploration is not just some solving some trivial minigame. It is much higher apm activity than mining and security missions as well. It involves flying over whole space, risk in lowsec, nullsec and wormholes. As such it is nonsense to compare it with mining which is 0apm activity. Of course it nets more ISK. And that this activity nets you low ISK was never ever the argument here. In each of my post I mentioned that it is already decent, just in long run. It is the design that is ■■■■ and deters new players from sticking with EVE. Did you even read it???
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Thats not content vets are supposed to be doing, there are far better options for making ISK than that, this is low level newbro friendly content that rewards newbro level rewards
I do market PvP. It nets me decent returns.
Yes it does, because you can scan faster, thus exclude sites faster that you can’t handle, do more sites that are not solvable for a frig.
Easy examples:
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WH gas sites, warp into them, bookmark them, keep scanning other sites. 20min later a wave of NPCs spawn. Kill them for 5-25M loot. Doable in a Stratios or T3C (all except the core ones) Not doable in a frig.
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C1-C3 sleeper data/relic sites. NPCs killable for a well fitted T3C (up to 90m loot), hackable after that (random loot, can be crap, can be good in relics). Stratios can do at least up to C2.
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DED sites, T3Cs can run up to 7/10 I believe if you know how and are blinged enough.
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Ghost Sites, T3Cs can tank the blast from exploding containers. Being able to risk hacking all of them. They can also handle most NPC spawns.
And again: DON’T work SOLO. Work for a corp, scan sites for them, many corps reward you if you find gas or combat sites their veteran members can do. So if they can get 200M out of a gas site and you get 20M just for finding and bookmarking it, thats great additional income for a newbie.
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I don’t know what you’re talking about: exploration scales really well with skills and equipment.
Yes, the contents of the can won’t change, but better skills allow you to find a site in a system in a fraction of the time you spend as newbie if you have better skills. Some sites you cannot even scan down completely as newbie.
Besides scanning much faster, you also hack faster, warp faster, travel more safely… your income as skilled explorer is many times more that of a new player simply because even if the cans are the same you can open like 5 times as many cans in the same time, if not more.
It’s just like mining: you’re both mining the same rocks but a Hulk mines significantly faster than a Venture. Skills improve your speed.
But unlike mining, a lot of speed of an explorer isn’t only the character skills, it’s also player skills. Knowing how to scan, where to scan, how to travel, how to hack, it all adds up too to your speed.
As a Veteran player I still enjoy exploring and it gives me decent ISK. It may be not as much as multibox mining R64 ore or doing high-end abyssals, but I enjoy the activity and get paid on top.
Unlike you I like it here and aren’t threatening to leave if things don’t change in my favour!
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I have an alt with max scanning skills. I do not see this. Using t2 probe launcher and sisters core probes, I don’t see this time difference you talk about.
Yes there are specific sites that are hard to scan. Suprisingly they are highsec only - one relic. Any other relic in low/wh/null is easier to scan. And that one is doable with alpha skills (which is what newbie will have). And sleeper sites those are basically not scannable without max skills, but also not something tha newbie player can do. Those are full of oneshot traps and nullsec-level difficulty cans anyway.
I am not saying there is no difference. Just that it is not meaningful. It won’t do much and player skill contributes more to this than character skills. I am able to scan sigs with my medium level alt just as quick as most veterans with max skills. Simply because they don’t know some basic mechanics (like sites being 4AU from planet) or they are slow at repositioning the probes on the map.
I know that there are players who use super blingy fits that are able to scan much faster than me. But that involves implants and RSS probes. And they onl get it few seconds before others anyway.
The difference here is in seconds. As it doesn’t take more than minute to scan sig normally with mediocre skills and t1 frigate.
Let’s not push hard that this is a some kind of in-game PVP. Better call it Market Competition. 
Another who can’t read and moves goal posts. I am outa here. Please re-read what I wrote. I never argumented that the rewards are bad and should be buffed. I argumented that they are spread out badly and that it leads to frustration and leaving of new players.
Instead you are all using argument that are not related to my point.
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