My Opinions after 1 month playing

I’ve been playing every day for 12+ hours a day for nearly a month now, and here are some thoughts i’ve come up with regarding this game and the reputation that eve has from an outside perspective.
Generally, if you ask gamers about eve, they will tell you they wont even try the game out because it has a reputation of being toxic and hard to learn. I had made a trial account in 2006 and quit because it is true that this game has a steep learning curve, and I just didn’t have the mentality or time to deal with it. Then I forgot this game even existed.
Last month, youtube put a random video about eve into my playlist. No idea why, but I watched it and I decided to try this game out for the first time… or so i thought. I later remembered that I had made a trial account, and per isd advice, I asked ccp to recover it. They did. I had 0 basic skills, and another isd suggested I make a ticket to ask for the base skills new players get. The GM that answered that ticket asked what I was even talking about and did nothing. So I spent nearly 40 million isk, from selling plex, to buy the basic skills and start learning.
While I was doing that, I explored this game on this character. I found that I like running missions, and I found some really cool people in a corporation that taught me a lot. However, at this point I also discovered that nearly everything I had been told in rookie help chat was BS.
A lot of people in there will say nullsec is the end all and be all of eve online. nothing else matters, nothing else compares.
Turns out, they are completely and utterly wrong. They said you can’t make isk in highsec, they said learn the “magic 14” skills before anything else. They said certain ships were basically the best for wide swaths of the game but also that there is no best in eve.
Here is what I have learned.
Mining as alpha is BS. a full venture is less than half a million isk, and you need multiple millions of isk to do basically anything. So mining as an alpha is a complete waste of time. If mining is what you find entertaining, you can’t make enough to even afford an alpha skill injector every day. You make roughly 2 million isk an hour, and alpha skill injectors are nearly 50 million. Still a much better deal than the small skill injectors, which are triple the cost but only double the reward. Less once you hit 5 million skill points.
On top of that, you quickly learn that multiple accounts are necessary if you ever want to compete in any section of the market. Established players with 10+ accounts are already producing at the best margins, so good luck getting anywhere with 1 account.
Missions are easy and the payout is better than mining. I took a caracal through level 3 missions, and did hundreds of those level 3 missions with no problems. It’s easy content, and to get anything better you have to pay. However, even if you do missions for a so called neutral corporation like sisters of eve, it will make amarr want to kill you on sight. Nobody warned me and there is shockingly little information about that on any of the youtube videos I have seen.
Exploration is a crapshoot. Not only are you gambling on any reward, but players are actively hunting you every second that you’re out there. You have to keep multiple web pages open to even try to tip the gamble in your favor slightly.
I did incursions with 0 isk input and very low skills, and made hundreds of millions of isk. Doing just public incursion fleets, it is very easy to plex from alpha to omega in less than 2 weeks, with less than a month of skills. That was made possible entirely due to one player and a public group called EVE Rookies. He is the only person I have ever seen even mention EVE Rookies. Even rookie help chat wont mention them.
PVP for a new player is a waste of time and isk. You do not have the skills to stand a chance against anyone except other new players. Alpha players are always at a distinct disadvantage since you can’t keep up with fitting, dps or utility in any way. You’re hard capped out of the fight. Anyone that says otherwise wants to use you as a meatshield distraction only. From watching videos and speaking to dozens of people, the concept of a 1v1 fight is laughable. I have been repeatedly told that if you’re in a fair fight, you both did something wrong.
For a pvp oriented game, there is shockingly little actual pvp. It is purely a numbers game. Overwhelm and erase, or run away. It took 27 days for me to lose my first ship to a player. A Broadsword was camping the gate that I warped through into lowsec. They couldn’t break through my shield rep, but i was wasting them… at least until the 35 second reload for my rapid light missiles. Because of that though, a second person jumped in with a gnosis and together they overwhelmed my ship. It took all of 3 minutes, and quite frankly I am proud of myself. Because of me, a corp mate with a loaded porpoise got through with no harm.
The reputation of toxicity is mostly unwarranted. Nearly everyone I have encountered has been very nice and welcoming. However, there is a lot of arrogance. No matter how much you read and simulate to come up with a fit, someone will be there to tell you that you’re doing it wrong. Amazingly though, when you ask for their recommended fit, it is complete junk. Usually very low resists and way too many modules for a specific thing at the expensive of everything else. Then you might learn about diminishing returns from stacking similar modules. This happens a lot in rookie help.
So called “newbro” public fleets like to demand you use 100 million+ isk ships that take months of training to use.
A lot of the advice from rookie help comes from the perspective of people that have not been new in more than a decade, and they like to link videos and web pages that has such outdated information that in some cases the buttons they say to push don’t even exist anymore.
Outside of career missions and plex, it is fairly difficult to build any level of wealth for a new player, though I have noticed that some kind souls hand out isk to new players. Then you have Mike and the magic bus handing out ships to new players. So there is definitely hope for a new player, but the game its self does not keep up with the game economy.
I found some twitch streams, where certain people will repeatedly say that all highsec players need to die. I have no idea why they arent banned since that violates a lot of rules. Maybe they get away with it by claiming they mean the characters and not the people, even though they are specifically directing their comments at the people and not the characters.
I see on these forums that a lot of people will flame others that complain about or suggest changes to any aspect of the game, and they do so with years of experience with the game and almost always talking down to new players. It’s like people forget what it’s like to be new and not have hundreds of billions of isk and hundreds of millions of skill points.
There are entire groups dedicated to pushing new players out of eve and they brag about it openly. In many cases, the same people that flame new players on these forums or on reddit will admit that they’d rather see eve dead and gone than have new players. This is why I said the reputation of toxicity is mostly unwarranted. There is definitely some in this game.
Outside of the community, this game does also have some problems that probably should be addressed at some point.
I play on an older computer, because I am disabled and by definition poor. The only money I have spent on this game came from doing surveys for an app and getting paid through paypal. I can’t afford a new computer, and one of the things that drew me to this game is how so many people say it takes almost no resources to run. That’s a lie.
Not even mentioning the directX problems even people with new computers are having, this game in the lowest possible settings is clunky and laggy. I have noticed that on this character that is forced into rookie help chat every time i log in, my computer struggles for several minutes. I have to close rookie help multiple times before it’s finally closed. The first couple of times it will pop right back up and attempt to reload the thousands of players and chat. The second time it’s usually not loading everyone, just a few people and no motd. However, on my alt account that was a trial over 15 years ago, I don’t get forced into rookie help and I log in much faster and lag a lot less. There is no way to opt out of rookie help chat during the first month.
Zoning, especially around trade hubs only sometimes works. I crash a lot. Docking or undocking from jita, even with the lowest possible settings takes more than 5 minutes. That was before the updates.
I see a lot of the ccp videos talking about player retention and new player experience, but they don’t ever seem to broach the subject of skill points, or how the player driven market excludes new players from just about everything. For example, to upgrade from a venture is a minimum of 20 million isk, and a month of training. That is for an expedition frigate. If you go to a barge, a minimum of 50 million isk and a month of training. Or some people will get a limited time omega deal that gives them the basic skills for a barge, and a retriever. I never got such an offer so I’m not sure how the game decides who gets what offers.
For pve combat ships it is a little easier, as there are multiple levels between a frigate and a battlecruiser. However, if you choose to learn one weapon/ship set, you almost can’t learn any others as an alpha. I know that alpha is considered an extended trial and a lot of people hate that alpha even exists. There is so much to dip your toes into with eve that is impossible for an alpha to skill into to stand half a chance. In order to try out everything, you have to dilute your skill training to the point of being next to useless in everything, especially with all of the forced rookie help chat telling you to learn the “magic 14”. This game rewards specialization, but new players arent going to know what they want to specialize into for a while. For me, almost a month. For others it might be faster, or it might be even longer.
That also means that perspective new players will feel stonewalled out of trying everything. So if they don’t guess correctly at what they might enjoy the most to keep them playing, they hit a wall of futility.
Reading the skills, you get to notice pretty quickly that they make no sense. What am I possibly learning that makes the structure of my ship stronger and takes 19 days to learn? My character isn’t controlling the atomic structure or design of the ships while flying them. They are built uniformly and with the same exact materials.
What am I learning that makes my capacitor work better? What am I learning that makes me fly faster? What am I learning that makes my ship cpu more effective, or the power grid? These are basic functions of the ship. Knowing the intricate details of how a car is built does not make it more fuel efficient when you drive it, nor does it make the vehicle survive a crash better.
Do jet pilots learn the fuel ratios for their afterburners? The answer is no, they do not.
Simply put, the skill system is designed to take as much time as possible in an effort to make us pay for subscriptions longer. It’s a pay and time gate to any activity in eve. I understand the business perspective and needing paying customers to keep the company and game alive. I am willing to pay the subscription cost and will do so for years to come. So then why does my character have to spend weeks and months to operate basic ship functions?
The lore of this game claims that we are the best and brightest that humanity has to offer, and every ship is built and operates the exact same way but we can’t figure out how to do anything without extended periods of training? So what is it we’re learning before we become immortal capsuleers? Regular human pirates are operating the same ships all day every day. The same ships we spend a lot of time to learn to even sit in and turn on. I learned how to drive in a dodge ram, and I guarantee I can go drive any other vehicle on the road without spending weeks learning how. Standardized controls exist in modern time so why don’t they in the future?
In summery, I really enjoy this game and I think the reputation of toxicity is mostly due to a minority of loud people. This game is old and has flaws that push a lot of new players away, but I look forward to the announced changes and what might come after. The community of this game seems to have some very weird ideas about new players that stem from spending years learning skills to do what they want, and building wealth through years of much easier times. The gaming industry has moved away from the super grind style for a reason.

** inb4 potato computer comments - I already know.
AMD E2-1800 APU with Radeon™ HD Graphics 1.70 GHz
4.00 GB (3.61 GB usable).

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you are wrong about pvp
but nice post anyway have a heat for the effort :heart:

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Just a few remarks:

Just because Exploration is RNG and thus a “crap shoot” doesn’t mean that overall, once you get good at it, the income isn’t good. It is, you just have to accept that not all loot is going to be good. The trick is to speed up the process through knowledge, experience and skills. And yes alphas CAN make good money with it but as said it takes effort to learn.

Same thing with PVP. Yes it certainly helps if you don’t have skill restrictions but at the same time you can get kills just fine as alpha, it’s (again) about knowledge, experience and effort. Lots of people have showcased it, lots of people (me included) have alpha pvp alts.

Newbies can make isk just fine, doing lots of things. It DOES take effort to get knowledge and experience though. Bit of a recurring theme here: effort to get knowledge and experience. I’ve put quite a few alts through that process, just for the heck of it, start as alpha and make it to the point of omega. It’s most certainly doable.

Also:

Sounds like you’re a freeloader.

Keep at it, realize that EVE is a LONG term game and that being new is going to suck because of various reasons, mostly a lack of understanding. Optimise, learn more, get better.

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Cant say i agree with everything in your post but there are some good observations in there. So on that Im going to respond to 1 thing and 1 thing only simple because I think it has some potential that you havent tapped into. Thats EXPLORATION.

For a beginner in my opinion its a great activity. you can fit a 1mill isk ship and just go. And if you are prepared to risk that ship in a wh or venture in to null then cans with 30+mill in loot are not uncommon. There arnt many activities that offer such as signifcant payday for such a small upfront investment albeit thats ofsetg by risk and rng as you pointed out.

A few things that make exploration a little easier is knowing what to target. For instance in highsec prioritise data sites over relics (relics are worthless in high sec). However the opposite is true in null and in wh’s.

Exploration during events is a safe and hugely profitable activity. There are often special data sites which have decent loot. Which allows you to make a lot of isk in high sec (relative safety). With that in mind its good to be able to do it as when these things come round its a good opportnunity.

And the final reason i think its a good activity is because if you do take the risk and go to null or wh’s for a pay day it gets you thinking about and practicing how to avoid other players. And lets be honest………you will lose the occassional ship. But given the low cost of the ship and fit thats not a bad thing as it goes some way to normalising loss in a game where its common.

Good luck going forward.

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Nice write up, a few thing’s:

Solo account is more than viable you just have to specialize in the things that are hard to pull off, the more accounts someone has the less skill they can put into each ship so if you look for hard content it will pay better just because people can’t multi box it, such as anomic mission’s, abyssal running (although 50% of the server does it so its income is much lower than before.) and a few other things.

My suggestion would be try a bit of everything and take note’s of how long it takes you and how much you get from it. Mining is mostly garbage income and I don’t know why people do it you need 50 accounts in high sec in ventures to actually earn something decent. Gas harvesting on the other hand is much better 120mil/h after about 3 weeks of training. Less if you include scanning down the sites and moving the gas. So avg about 50-70.

For pvp a new player can do pvp but the problem is not sp but knowledge you need to watch a lot of youtubes about pvp before you can do well in solo pvp.

Some of the best players often make a alpha account and pvp with it. Players see a 1 month old account and are much more willing to fight compared to rocking up with a 2007 account and people just nope out of there.

Sp concentration is important for pvp thou and for a beginer to enjoy the game more he/she would do better to do a little of everything and try things out. For pvp cap skills to 4 fitting skills to 4 thermal dynamics to 4 and hull upgrades to 5 (can be 4 but it will cost you more as you have to buy faction modules to compensate, domination resistance for example.) is usually enough for pvp I would say get t2 weapons as well. And if you are in fw low sec some navigation skills helps a ton.

There isn’t some magic formula that works you will have to see what you enjoy and tweak your fit’s and skills around your fit’s and improve it little by little each time till your happy. But that is the fun part anyways why let someone else tell you when you can figure it out yourself.

I’m sad to hear about rookie help its true magic 14 crap is terrible and there needs to be some type of better way to go about explaining skill’s.

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about mining, ore mining in a venture is very low isk. however, you can make alot more (20-50M) mining gas in low sec.

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When stating numbers people tend to forget the actual time it takes. First you have to actually FIND a gas site, then it needs to be in a relatively quiet system, then the mining happens (this is the only bit most people count) and then you need to make it back to high sec alive, bundle it all up and move to Jita to sell.

You don’t help newbies by making false claims.

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The best advice I can can give you in terms of training is look for ships that you can fly well in and compete, the Caracal is one such example. Then look at the skills that enable you to use it’s bonuses and to enable its best and most competitive fitting.

When people talk about top tier pilots running Alpha accounts and doing well, yeah that does happen, but most people cannot play like that, they are exceptions and I would think this is similar to the advice you got in rookie chat. So most people as an alpha are cannon fodder. One of my friends started to do faction warfare as an Alpha, he is a good player, gets into the detail has great situational awareness and thinks things through and he soon realised that he could not compete using T1 ships and as an Alpha. He was getting taken out by faction ships with T2 fits and all his T1 and ship advantages were negated by simply flying those ships. Of course it is a little bit nuanced than that, but I am sure you understand what I mean by that. The trolls will however have head explosions.

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if you spend time in low sec, you’d know that gas sites are abundant. i’d say 1 in 3 systems have a gas site you can mine. they’re not hard to find at all. and low sec is not that dangerous. even if you do die occasionally, a venture can be replaced easily.

most people who gank in low sec only use one warp scrambler, so a venture with a fitted warp core stab + its innate stab bonus is hard to catch. a ship has to be fitted specifically to catch a venture (at min, two warp scrams + a probe launcher). most ventures i kill are because the pilot is afk.

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He has one good point thou and that is moving that heavy ass gas lol. Might be worth mining in a prospect dumping it in the same system in a npc station and then using an endurance to move the gas with its slightly bigger cargo. Both those ship’s don’t take too long to train for luckily.

Yea, I was just letting him know that the pvp system wasn’t behind a huge sp wall and that skill has a huge infleunce.

To be fair thou now that I’m playing on a low sp char I find algos incredibly hard to kill even with skill, those drones are crazy strong.

Your post was fine, I liked it. And I agree with you, player skill is a major part of it, situational awareness and positioning and knowing how to slingshot so as to get point. Learning how to do that is perhaps the best way to use and lose T1 ships.

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But are those systems safe enough to travel in and mine. “They’re everywhere” means very little if, as a newbie, you don’t know where to go, which (entry) systems to avoid and death could happen any second. Just entering random (probably Caldari) low sec, next to hs, and go “oooh a gas site, lets mine that” has a very high chance of failure.

You have to find your way into relatively quiet low sec, THERE you have to find gas sites, then you mine it and then you have to make it back alive. So again, people are being too optimistic and don’t take the challenges of an actual newbie into account.

If they start with venture’s they can just go to a random system and when they die mark that system as dangerous and try a different spot, eventually they will find a good spot or area after 4 or 5 venture deaths and will be able to pay for those losses pretty quickly afterwards.

Which costs time, money and doesn’t account for rng. If you die in one system doesn’t mean you will always die, if you lived it doesn’t mean that next time it won’t have a gate camp.

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Overall, people overestimate a newbie’s ability to make informed decisions, mostly because they’re not actually informed. More experienced players just need some basic “go do this” and they can fill in the blanks and avoid obvious (to them) mistakes.

Actual newbies can’t do that, if you tell them “go mine gas in low sec” they’ll probably go to Kubinen, try to mine there and blow up within 30 seconds.

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Yea but getting blown up is how they get experience the sooner they stop worrying about being blown up the sooner they start to worry about getting blown up less often the better.

The number one mistake beginers make is staying safe and earning much less than their potential - the few losses.

Go and purposely try to die and you will end up wondering for maybe a few hours before finding anything.

No, all they learn is “blowing up sucks”. If you don’t understand WHY it happened you don’t learn much. Throwing enough ■■■■ at a wall until something sticks is not only dumb, it’s also costly and doesn’t exactly generate income.

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O btw op try this:

It let’s you mark system’s as different colours and stuff it will help a lot in keeping track of things.

The whole purpose of going out and dying is to learn the landscape understanding the eco system its not throwing ■■■■ at the wall it has purpose.

and a venture is like 2mil? Clone cost 0, the amount they can make is many times that.

At that point its stupid to not risk it.