How much does player skill matter?


(KENY XAN) #1

Hey guys,

I’m actually new to this game and forum (~6h ingame time) so please don’t hate me if i chose the wrong forum here :smile:

I actually asked myself how much player skill matters in fights.
There are things like auto orbiting, auto targetting/shooting and so on.
So does the bigger/better fitted ship/better (ingame skills) skilled pilot auto wins?

(I know there are ships that kind of counter others but what im actually talking about is: We both have the same ship. Mine is better fitted and my ingame char has more skills learned. Can you still win? And like mentioned how much does personell skill matter?)

I asked this question ingame and a nice guy told me that ingame experience matters alot. Factors like speed, ammo types used etc.

He explained there is something like outspeeding someone so that his weapons cant lock/target/hit me.

I asked of there are some deadangels where his weapons cant reach me. He answered there are no such points.

So does the fadtest ship win because the otherone cant actually hit me?

I am someone who really is into action and skillbased things (playing lots of mobas/shooters) and I would really like to go on a fighting path in EVE.
The only thing holding me back is my mentioned question and the fact that I dont really think I can enjoy fights beeing deceited by ship fittings/size… before it started.
How much fun is there auto locking/orbiting someone and leaning back till the other one is blown up?

PS: The answer given will most likely deceite about my thoughts aboit this game: Is it worth spending my time? Or is it not?

Ty for reading till here

Have a nice day and a save flight

Salut !!! :raising_hand_man:


(Memphis Baas) #2

EVE is an RTS (strategy) game (like StarCraft) but played from a single unit’s point of view. You’re the unit. Well, your character can unlock a plethora of ships, but you’re flying one ship at any given time, and that ship is the unit, in a fleet or corp or alliance that’s at war or trying to defeat enemies, conquer a piece of the map, get rich from resources, etc. You’re a unit.

Let’s compare to chess or StarCraft; as a newbie you’re learning how to move the pieces / units, and you’re training various skills that unlock pieces / units for you, and make them function decently with bonuses.

But actual games of chess or StarCraft don’t fit the theory (on paper, Queen + Rook will win vs. Rook + Knight, but in practice, skill at the actual game, skill at reading the opponent’s mood / facial expressions, and a bit of psychological warfare / comments / jabs / taunts can completely change the outcome of the game).

The ships and weapons in EVE are designed in a complex rock-paper-scissors relationship. In theory, if you fit a destroyer for combat and bring it out, and the other guy fits a mining frigate (Venture), the outcome is predictably in your favor and you can guess at it before you even undock. In practice, there is the possibility that the Venture guy knew what destroyer you were going to bring, from your killboard history or from a spy in your corp, so his Venture could be fitted with weapons instead of mining lasers, ECM drones to jam you, energy neutralizer to wipe out your capacitor, and/or other surprises, turning the fight in his favor.

When you learn about the game mechanics, what ship does what, how repairs and jamming work, you’re basically learning the kind of experience that minimizes your mistakes. Because you don’t always face ace pilots; sometimes you face newbies who make lots of mistakes.

And if you try to find intel about the enemy, what they’ll fit, what tactics they like, how they’re likely to react, what insults trigger them, how to bait people into attacking you, that’s when you’re applying advanced strategy in a RTS game, and can become quite effective at winning fights that you should have lost.

It’s easy to blob, bring the biggest ship, biggest fleet, etc. The good players win against the odds. This game is complex and will facilitate winning against the odds, that’s actually the point of it. That’s what fame is about.


(Memphis Baas) #3

And it’s not about ship size, it’s about ship capabilities. DPS is one role. But you also have ships that can tank, cloak, jam you in various ways, remote-repair (heal) their buddies, apply AoE damage, tackle / prevent you from warping away, etc. There are many roles, and they all inter-play.

DPS, the devs balanced the weapons to give all ships a chance to survive / participate. For example, frigates will die in one shot if a battleship’s guns hit them, but battleship guns (and actually ALL big weapons) are designed to have very poor tracking of target movement, so a frigate that orbits close to a battleship won’t even be hit. Of course, the frigate guns barely tickle the battleship-grade armor and shields, so one frigate by itself can’t do much besides warp-disrupt the battleship so it can’t run away. A wolf-pack of frigates, on the other hand, the battleship still can’t hit any of these frigates with its guns, but 12-20 puny frigate gun racks CAN pile on enough damage to cut through battleship shields and armor.

So that’s why the battleship usually has drones. It launches them and kills some of the frigates with it, but the frigates kill the drones and then the battleship is out.

However, the battleship has other tricks at its disposal, IF the pilot had some intel in advance about this frigate wolf-pack coming his way. Smartbombs are point-blank AoE weapons; frigates need to stay close so they don’t get hit by battleship guns, but that brings them into smartbomb range, and one smartbomb can kill all of them at the same time. Battleship can also install heavy energy neutralizers, one shot from one of those will drain a frigate, shutting down its afterburner and slowing it down enough to hit it, even with battleship guns.

It’s a game of tactics and counter-tactics. You sit in station and fit your ship for a purpose. Make a fleet and bring your friends with ships fitted for a purpose. Then you go out there and hunt for situations that match your purpose, and hopefully you avoid situations that kill you. Knowing about the game, about the ships, and recognizing danger (or sweet juicy targets) as early as possible, or even spying for advanced intel, is what makes a win or a loss.


(Memphis Baas) #4

Ok, specific scenario: we both have the same ship, you bought your character or injected skills into your character to instantly unlock this ship, and the better (Tech 2) weapons and modules on it. I have the same ship, but fitted with Tech 1 weapons and modules, but I’ve been playing for 3 years.

So what happens?

Well, first I quickly test to see if you’re making rookie mistakes, like wrong ammo loaded, forgetting to turn on your shield repairers or your damage resistances, trying to stay at the wrong range for your guns etc. If you do make such mistakes, I CAN win, because the difference between Tech 2 and Tech 1 is big, but manageable 15% - 25%.

If it looks like you’ve got the basics, I’ll try to outrange / run away / reduce the damage I take as much as possible, let you repair yourself if you want, but piss you off, keep you chasing me. Maybe I’ll laugh at you not catching me even with your bling T2 weapons. Because you’re a day 1 character, barely said “hello” in the newbie starter system, whereas in 3 years I’ve made some friends, and they’re forming a fleet and will be here in oh, 5 minutes. And then we win.

1 on 1 scenarios don’t usually happen; combat is unfair in reality and in this game. The game has a dueling system, and people do duel for fun and learning, but outside of that, anything that’s allowed by the game rules is acceptable, including bringing friends.

You join a corp and you help them achieve something, you’re a unit in their long-term strategy play. The actual combat between ships, lasers firing, things exploding, etc., is shown and is quite entertaining, but not quite the point of the game.


(Ralph King-Griffin) #5

nope, skilled pilots know how to leverage their ships strengths,
and exploit the weaknesses of your opponents.

aside from the rabbit hole of fitting and engagement tactics ( we could be here for weeks if we deep dived into it ) ,
manual piloting ,
micro managing modules and drones effectively
and maintaining situational awareness
(whilst smacktalking in local)
are real skills you can leverage and can have a big impact.

thats not to say you may become invincible ,
good pilots will still lose poorly chosen engagements ,
to cheap crap too if its fit and flown effectively and appropriately.

here is what happened to the ship i used in the above fight , literally the next day.


(Tiddle Jr) #6

So you’ve been overexcited and loudly celebrating tengu kill in local and this local hommie came and smashed you like a cookie?

Anyway nice tengu pwn’age :sunglasses:


(yellow parasol) #7

When you learn to manually keep at range and manually orbit your enemy (clickclick, move camera, clickclick, move camera) you’ll eventually learn that people who use the buttons are at the mercy of the computer not ■■■■■■■ it up when you change something.

Manual orbitting, though, is hard work in small, fast ships.


(Gregorius Goldstein) #8

Different kinds of player skills help you in different situations and to various degrees. While some things work nearly the same for all players some situations greatly benefit from high player skills.

  • Manual piloting is great for tackle, scouts and faction war frigate PVP
  • When you can tell from the look of your enemies weapons if short-range, long-range or cap-war fits are used you get an edge in solo and small gang PVP or as a fleet commander
  • When you can tell by the speed of an capsule whether the target has most likely implants slotted or not your ganking power grows
  • When you can tell buy the colors of a wormhole what region it will lead to you have an slight advantage in this kind of space
  • Somelplayes are great at declaoking just by guessing where the prey probably aligned to.

Every form of gameplay in EVE has some scenarios where player skills matters, but all in all having good friend to fly with is far more important.


(Keno Skir) #9

This.


(yellow parasol) #10

Reminds me… i made a short list of things regarding “player skills” here:

May it help.


(mkint) #11

Player skill starts on the fitting screen. Every weapon system has trade offs, which mostly boil down to range vs DPS. These are then affected by things like ewar. The skilled player will find the groove where the limits of their own weapons out-class their target. If your target is fit for sniping, you want to be close. If your target is fit for close, you want to snipe. If you’re both fit for sniping, snipe at the very edge of your range and tracking so hopefully you can out-class your target. If your strategy isn’t working, reconsider your options, reconsider your next loadout, and maybe consider your escape plan. And in EVE, a “fair fight” is just one where both sides failed to cheat properly. :wink:

My fitting rules:

  1. don’t mix guns
  2. don’t mix tanks
  3. whoever controls the range wins

(Boldly Gone) #12

Experience and routine wins.
I’m quite sure a pro in a T1 frig still can still kill me in my Battlecruiser within a minute. He knows how to fit this ship to make me even slower, were my ship’s vulnerable, and what modules to use when, where and how long. I try to lock. orbit and shoot, but have to think about the huge signature size because of my mwd, the optimal range of my ammo, did I load the right ammo anyway, and wtf is that ray meaning he emmits at my ship? What does overheating help? And why is my Capacitor already empty, so my repairers are just denying to work when I desperatly need them?
Fighting that way is not very successful (surprise), no matter what ship my pod is set in and what skills my character has already trained.
So either I’m still just a noob, or I’m a lousy fighter. Future will tell, probably both :wink:

arghh, forgot to launch my drones…


(Keno Skir) #13

It all boils down to tracking really. He only needs blow up whatever light drones you’re packing and you haven’t a snowballs chance in hell of hitting his tiny fast ship with your massive slow tracking weapons :smiley:


(system) #14

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