How to solve over usage of the Capital Ships?

The issue is more that they don’t die very much or at the very least we are building them faster than we can kill them.

  • Nerf mineral income in general (probably with the rorqual), not because caps but because economy fudged.
  • Nerf capitals hit points (esp supers and titans). They just need to die more.
  • Lower capital mineral cost. (this takes away some of the advantage of big economic blocks like goons and makes fights more about fleet size)
  • Lower insurance payouts for capitals.
  • Maybe increase build time, esp supers and titans.
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Banned in Empire Space = True

The problem is that we have a massive supply and that would cut demand as losec dwellers would no longer use them, which means that capital ships would get even more disposable in nature in nullsec and W-space.

Personally, I say we take the opposite approach.

I say let capitals into hisec. Not all of them, and not everywhere, but open up the market for hisec dwellers. That would increase demand and balance out the market forces making them so cheap.

(This post is partially tongue-in-cheek, especially since I’m leaving off the massively long list of limitations I think would have to go along with hisec capitals, but it’s still something to think about.)

I really like this idea. All of the capitals that my alliance currently owns, we’ll have gotten super cheap, and anyone else who tries to catch up with us will suffer the huge increase in cost.

This is very concrete and well thought out.

That just allows what is basically unneeded ship creep to continue to screw up low and now add high.

That totally falls into the liner progression trap.

Oh yeah, it’s fraught with other issues that make it probably not worth doing, but purely from the standpoint of drying up the oversupply of capital ships to make them less disposable, it should work. (In theory.)

(I did say my comment was somewhat tongue-in cheek…)

EDIT: The post where I talk about allowing caps in hisec is here. I didn’t mean to go off topic, so lets shift any further discussion over there. :slight_smile:

Nullsec will just make more…

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Yea for a time it may benefit you and probably all other Alliences but you guys will keep losing it (everyone loses their caps from time time) so eventually in weeks things will settle…

It’s really cute that you think capitals still dry up in a span of weeks.

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Fight capitals with capitals. A carrier cost you as much as a bling fitted rattle.

I totally get where the “think of the children” arguments come from. We need to encourage new/low skilled players.

At the same time though, if there also needs to be unique play for the veterans of the game, because otherwise what’s the keep them anchored to playing?

They support the game for a long time and then if there’s nothing for them to enjoy, why stay?

We potentially end up losing more vets, while still having poor retention of new players and the active community continues to shrink.

So I don’t thknk the answer to help newer/lower skilled players is to nerf capitals.

Capitals dropping on sub caps has been an issue, but the right approach should be in my view, to:

  • Ensure capitals are the right counter to other capitals
  • Make capitals less useful against sub capitals
  • Ensure capitals are not overly vulnerable to sub capitals as a result of the above point

If capitals are poor at applying damage to sub-caps, then the motivation to drop them lowers. However, they don’t want to become so bad that the best counter to caps is a sub-cap fleet.

It’s a difficult thing, but just nerfing stuff across the board doesn’t seem the right answer.

In some ways, beefing up the ability of capitals to take out other capitals, then making sure they can’t apply well to sub caps but aren’t at risk from sub caps, should separate their use.

Jump fatigue is good, but while that allows smaller groups to use capitals without being dropped from across the map, we have less chance now of having the next B-R battle. If only we could find a way to let capitals move big distances sometimes (eg. increase the null-null wormhole spawn rate again, with mass limits that allow capital fleets to move through).

I don’t know what the right answer is tbh, but I don’t think nerfing capitals is it.

But doesn’t this change WAY too many parts of the recipe when all you really need to do is change a core ingredient(ie ore availability)?

If you make Supers rarer due to manufacturing hardships then they use of them also becomes much more selective…and that will trickle down though all ship types…

Maybe, but unfortunately the cat is already out of the bag as far as capital proliferation goes, so trying to get it under control again is going to have advantages and disadvantages no matter which approach is chosen.

If for example, minerals are made rarer so they are more difficult to build, then those groups that already have them have a huge strategic and operational advantage over those that don’t.

In a couple of years time, the current political landscape will then favour the status quo even more, because it will be harder for new groups to rise to a state of being able to challenge the existing nullblocs.

That seems like a recipe for more stagnation, or total dominance along the current lines that can’t change.

I’m not sure that is a fair approach to trying to control capitals. It just hurts players and groups that will join and be created in the future.

You are right about the cat bit…but I would put forth that a drought of resources would be a huge catalyst for conflict and intern thin-out the stockpiles (of everything). This will take months (a years?) to do it “fairly” though…but it could be as simple as turning down the taps and let things balance out naturally.

I’m a big fan of the KISS principal so…

yeah I agree with that. In particular, regional distribution of resources, or redistribution occasionally. Those seem like good conflict drivers.

If I was at the switch, I’d reduce the amount of ore by 5%/10%/15% in HS/LS/NS per month until the average ship prices of all classed returned to pre Rorq times…

Thank god you’re not then.

Risk free use of capitals to farm smash the supplier / surprise surprise / in the midst of deadspace ?

Bring it on :smiley: What could possibly go wrong…

To be fair tags don’t create wealth - they redistribute it.

Price of ships in general is affected by “I want to make ships and minerals I mine are free” crowd. It often is lower than price of minerals needed to build them… but conversely there is a lot of underproduced goods. Especially T2.

I know it is not capitals, but questions to you: How many destroyers I have in my hangars?
How long would it take CODE. to burn through them all? How many can I make in one day?

Once you answer these you will know why you have wrong ideas about the way it all works.

We are stockpiled … to the point that most don’t know why they stockpile more. But stockpiling continues - just in case.