RPers disregard for the political and military realities of the game in favour of flavour text is proof enough of that.
Note: RPer in this entire thread being defined as those who play In Character and Out of Ship, rather than all of us, as we are all RPers to a degree, unless you actually own a Imicus, then pics or it didnt happen.
I’d say that’s a bit of a reach really. Many long time RPers also are avid participants in various aspects of the game, such as PVP or industry, and have a very intuitive grasp of mechanics, and the reality of things in-game. They just happen to recognize that there’s more than just the reality of the players at play in the background of the world we all play in. Hell, a lot of them have been through null at one point or another, both NPC and sov, in various orgs on various toons.
Oh, I only own a Rook. 
No it isnt.
Ive been told in so uncertain terms that the Empires out number, out gun and can out produce Null.
I have seen utterly no evidence of this in game.
The Triglavian Invasion proved how woefully useles Empire’s Militaries are.
5 squiggles minimum
Feel free to ask the devs, particularly those versed in the lore of the setting, some of which have been around as long as the game, they will tell you, point blank, that the game is not a perfect simulation of the universe its tied to. Ontop of that, yes, the empires can, and I can tell you in no uncertain terms how. The Caldari State is the smallest Empire in the cluster, just behind the Minmatar Republic, and, as of the last official census material we have(which was in EVE Source) they had a population of just over 8 TRILLION people. By scale alone, player capsuleers in the narrative are outnumbered massively by even the smallest empire. Scale of course is not the only factor worth considering of course but, to put it in perspective… all of Null’s fleets combined would not match the full composite formation of any given Empire navy. Full stop.
Yeah, null would do catastrophic damage most likely, but think about this critically. If 8 trillion people in the smallest empire become militarized against capsuleers as a whole, the entire military industrial complex fully mobilized for a protracted drawn out slog… you really thing 200k-600k eggers and those in their employ would actually stop them?
And, that’s something we’d never be able to really see in the game world, because the numbers alone would turn the servers into a burning wreckage. Players already push close to that on their own as is.
The flaws in your position are so staggering as to invite disbelief.
So children under 18 and old folk over 65 becoming militarised would be a threat to combat pilots who are only ever of combat age in the setting because they are clones?
That number is of 8 Trillion is utterly worthless as it incudeds literally trillions of people unfit for service for a variety of reasons, not least of which is a good proportion are 4 years old.
There are NO pilots in a null bloc incapable of killing HUNDREDS of normies in a few shots.
1 Capsuleer can fly anythign from a frigate to a Titan. How many normies were in that Caladari Navy Cruiser that was just one-shotted by a Capsuleer?
So where were ANY of the Empires Captials or fleets of mre than one or two dozen ships when the Trigs literally stole entire systems with BILLIONS of NPC people in them?
There is literally no evidence at all that the Empires can field a force that could stop Nullsec. Not one single piece.
Only CONCORD with their god-given handwavium could do anything.
Face it, if CONCORD went away tomorrow, your precious Empires would be dead in days.
The fiction is as paper thin and weak as the lore that supports it.
The average age in the Caldari state, is rou
Interesting thing here, cluster average age is 165, actually, so 65 would be, at most, early middle aged when it gets down to it.
The State also has mandatory service, and, an often very overlooked fact, the empires have their own capsuleers they keep leashed to he Navies. Interesting, isn’t it? Of course, it is mainly ‘normies’ as you keep putting it, but, you also seem to forget that its a game, so farmable NPCs are pretty much a must. How empire or pirate ships operate in game is not directly equitable to how they function in the reality of the wider universe.
Alright another point to pick apart, hm…
They were deployed in the lore, if you read any of the world news updates. Of course, game world limitations and dev time prevented any massive displays, but be quite assured they were there and fighting. And further on, Capsuleers weren’t the driving force of the invasion, there were much larger triglavian forces involved than were able to be portrayed as well so don’t get uppity about ‘inconsistency’ now.
On an interesting note, the most populous system taken was Vale, with multiple planets with billion plus populations… and had the highest pop number by a wide margins. Final tally for populations stolen is probably somewhere in the low tens of multi-billions, but we do not have exact numbers, just that twenty-seven systems taken, and the largest population system was much much higher pop than the next nearest, which, I believe was one of the Caldari systems, with some hundreds of millions at time of Totality.
The game world is, again, inconsistent to the wider universe its tied to.
Edit: after looking back over things, it seems you’re purposely trying to derail this away from the original topic anyway, so I believe I’m done with you. Good job getting me going of course. Seems you have a gift of sorts. If you want to talk specifics of the lore, and how much it doesn’t line up with the game world, there’s a forum section for that too
Dodging the point of the statement does not invalidate the statement.
PVE Mission Runners? Yeah they’ll do loads against an Imperium PvP squadron. And thats if they dont just get offered ten times what the Navy pays em to switch sides.
And yet there is no counter evidence you can produce to show that Amarr wouldnt annexxed to Delve if the artificial nature of preventing Cynos into the Imperial Capital wasnt a thing.
Yes but they werent deplotyed in reality. The Empires lost, remember?
But lore doesnt, and they still lost. If they are so uber powerful, how come? Why didnt they militiaris all their old folk and infants then when literally Billions of Citizens were being kidnapped and murdered?
Which were also suspiciously absent, and yet they still managed to win.
And the Empires just dont care. This is where your lore falls down. If you are supporting a lore where all societies dont give a fig about the loss of billions of people and dozens of worlds, then its pretty worthless, thin, unbelievable lore.
Im sorry that you cant defend your own position, but thats got everything to do with why people dont want to RP in this wafer thin uninteresting universe.
But according to you, its unft for RPing in, so what is it good for?
You say its nto for people new to RP, well here I am, asking questions about the lore you seem unable to answer, yet you feel you are sutied to tell us that you know how to solve this problem?
This is totally on topic, its a public forum where you have had an idea, and Im expressing my opinion that the idea may not work because when put to the test, you seem unable to actually defend why anyone should invest in the lore. And when pressed on this, you claim Im derailing the thread.
Play out your character, leave the typing to the summit furries. There’s your RP.
I have gotten the feedback from people who abandoned trying to RP in EVE in general or places like Summit and DS specifically that they will come in, see as bunch of people signed in and nobody talking and it gives them a feeling of being an inactive segment of the community. For those disinclined to start conversations, this creates a bit of a feedback that becomes self-sustaining. It’s a truly imperfect idea, but what I am trying to convey without writing a white-paper on the subject is encouraging a sense of self-motivated interest in actively role-playing in a role-play hub.
For example, and this elaborates on the ‘social contract’ idea as well. If you go to a bar there is an implied social contract, social convention, whatever you want to call it, that you are there to buy a drink, maybe socialize. So the idea of going to a role-play hub like the summit day after day after day and never talking in my mind is like going to a bar every day and never ordering anything. If you aren’t going to drink, and aren’t going to socialize… why go to the bar?
I know this is all kind of malformed and all loosey-goosey in my head. I am really only casting a wider net to see if there is any interest in actively tackling the concern of how to we inject new blood into the RP community.
That basically sums up my impressions of the summit.
Since you seem to have a habit of misrepresenting or willfully misinterpretting my statements, here’s my last rebuttal.
No, I said Navy capsuleers. Mission runners are still players, and thus representative of Independent Capsuleers, not the Navies, nor are any of the FW militia capsuleers ‘Navy’ or ‘military officer’ capsuleers, before you bring them up next. I said, quite specifically, that the Empires keep their own capsuleers tied to their Navies.
From a certain perspective. The Triglavians achieved their objectives, and won 27 systems outright, plus assorted minor victories, where as the Empires in total won more than 100 systems and assorted minor victories.
Cynosural lockouts is an empire tech, not a CONCORD one, and further, I’ve made a point about this already that the game world is not the grand sum of the entire universe eve takes place in. You willfully ignoring that is and saying I’m ‘not succeeding’ at defending my points is absurd.
Here’s the the thing honey, the militarized all able bodied individuals. Which, in the Caldari State, additionally, which has a fairly high basic standard of living, ready access to advanced medical technologies and gene therapy and cybernetics, and already a highly militarized culture, increases the range of ‘able bodied’ from age 16 well into 80+, and that’s before extensive cybernetic replacement is involved. Amarr, as another example, and they came out quite well in the invasion, often will have active duty soldiers and officers well into their late 70(which is firmly on the younger side for Amarr), and reasonably into their mid 120s. Your able bodied pool in any given empire is much wider than what may be considered viable in real life because of advanced tech and medical services.
Ah, I see… you’re one of those ‘if it doesn’t appear in the game it never exists regardless of what the background has,’ aren’t you?
Alright I’ll bite. I’m not the OP, but I do agree that the usual places pointed to to get into RP are inadequate for the purposes of actually starting the process, but, I was refering to the lore discussion subforum of the Fiction Portal section, which is NOT the intergalactic summit subforum, or the IGS or Summit chat channels in-game.
Because it does seem like it is derailing, with how you’ve expressed it so far.
Seems didn’t know where to look, which is an entirely separate issue(one several lore community people have been trying to rectify with CCP for a while) connected to the visibility of lore and the background story, or if you have, you’ve chosen to ignore it.
May I suggest looking into the World News site, may help shed some light on various things the past year, and even further back than that during the Invasion period especially. It wasn’t a ‘didn’t care’ situation at all.
If you want examples of older background material? Well, there’s also chronicles, and the actual fiction portal website, plus a community supported backup copy old the old(and now outdated) evalopedia.
You have no idea what I wouldn’t give to see CCP do a second, updated run of EVE Source current to how things are now in the current game year of YC123(or whichever current year they ever think to do this). Source is several years out of date now but still a relevant and solid reference if you can ever manage to get your hands on one.
That all in mind, I still can recognize the lore isn’t for everyone, but it is there, and should be acknowledged when the tools are available to at least run through the basics.
On a separate note, a few hours sleep goes a long way in clearing one’s head.
Have a nice day.
Dear OP’er. Amarr Victor used to be a battle cry that resonated with many RP’ers. It lead to the conquest of Providence, and its occupation for many years.
Please link me the bio of a “Navy Capsuleer”
The perspective of every Empire citizen who died in the the invasion and every planet absorbed into the Clades. As well as everyone who fought for Edencom, both real and NPC normy.
First youve mentioned it. I still fail to see how this tech would stop a invasion of Amarr by the Imperium if CONCORD was not there to hand wave it away.
And yet fielded fleets of around no more than a dozen cruisers and no capitals.
You are literally ingoring your own lore when it suits you.
How many crew are in an Abaddon? An Avatar?
There’s only 1 when its a capsuleer.
At last we are getting somewhere. Game events = Real universe, Lore = Fiction, you get how this works right?
It wasnt? Its an ongoing crisis! And what are the Empires doing about it?
Nothing.
Also, if I give you the benefit of speaking to you like an adult, Id appreciate you do the same “honey” (sic).
Ah, no. That’s innacurate. We do not have current up to date crew numbers, but be quite assured all your ships, even your frigates, have crews just the same.
Ah, here it is. You are one of those. You are actively cherry picking things out to support your argument, or attempt to. The game is a part of the wider reality of EVE. Ask any of the devs. Its our main point of interaction yes, but is not the totality of it.
My suggestion, use the resources I’ve provided to you, read up, see where things are, learn a bit, instead of dismissing outright. Otherwise, it comes off very much as you trying to troll and goad responses. Of course, you’ e done quite well with that for me. So far, getting me to continue talking in circles with you.
Nope, there’s some old fiction that suggests that but I can assure you there are no people on my ships.
I see you were just in fact trolling me. No actual attempt to discuss, just insults and ridiculous unsupported statements. Im glad this has come to its forseen conclusion.
Feel free to get the last word if you like, Ill not be responding to you any further.
The summits are places where characters of different factions come together. You’re not going to get an IC place where (for example) Minmatar Militia and Amarr Militia come together to be happy friendly people with one another. Even during situations like the Trig invasion where they did, at times, work together, the characters tended to do so grudgingly. That’s an accurate representation of the way people in those organizations would behave.
RP experiences that are, on balance, more ICly supportive and upbeat tend to happen only once you narrow your focus by excluding the characters with whom you’d naturally have conflict. And those RP venues do exist within a number of factions. And the way to find those places… is to get to know the other players—not their characters.
The Summit and the IGS aren’t the problem. The problem is unreasonable expectation for what kind of experience you’ll find in any venue where all sides of every conflict are represented. It’s like going to a baseball game and complaining that the whole time isn’t the fast-paced, frenetic action you might find in a soccer game. That’s just not what that venue is for, so if you go into the venue expecting some other kind of product, you’re not going to get it.
Which, again, is why I suggest the OOC channels. OOC channels that cater to the RP community allow players to talk to other players about what they’re looking for and where the best places are to find it. They let new players come in and find out things like ‘ok, so, the Summit? It’s full of characters from all over, and those characters bring their IC grudges and prejudices with them. Don’t take any of it personally. If you’re looking for a welcoming, positive environment, you need to focus on the characters who have some commonality with your character, at least at first’.
And that’s the ‘where’ you’re looking for: a place where the new player can talk to the established players about what they’re looking for, how to find it, and how they can find a place in the RP community. There is not, and really cannot be, an IC channel where characters of all stripes and variations will be welcomed and supported by everyone who’s there. Anyplace where, for example, nationalist militia pilots from all over are welcome… will have conflict between them. Anyplace where they’re not… well, you can’t go pointing a newbie there if they’re looking to play that kind of character, now can you?
So you start by setting the characters aside, and put the player in contact with the other players.
I just realised the OP is named after an Elite Dangerous NPC.